Ok, we're getting some wires crossed here. NO I dont think you are out to lunch at all to worry about the "Whats Next" issue. That is my concern as well.
Originally Posted by steven:
Of course this is a reason, among many, for concern. Do you not know that having the "What's Next" concern is what makes us Americans unique from other countries. What do you think caused the American Revolution? No Taxation Without Representation - What's Next. Stamp Act - What's Next. India Tea Company - What's Next. So On and So On. Americans demand their rights from government. Americans protect their rights by requiring accountability. That is what the Secret Court is for when conducting wire taps of U.S. Citizens. I dont see how anyone can think its okay to allow the president to take ANY action he deems necessary in the name of protection. This is how dictators get into power. That's not to say Bush is any sort of dictator. But we Americans have to constantly be dilligent and watchful of our government. We are responsible to keep them honest by demanding accountability. I think we can all agree that our founding fathers knew something about bad government and the dangers of government. This is where the Constitution came from. This is where the Bill Of Rights came from.

Ok Steve, the part I highlighted is the point I am trying to get at... accountability. I do NOT feel that there is any constitutional authority for any branch of our goverment to act without oversight from another branch. That is the accountability built into our system and I fear that it is being lost, then we get into the "Whats Next" scenarios...

 

And that would be proper, and appropriate. The procedure tho would be to obtain a warrant through the FISA court to continute the monitoring inside the USA.....

Bush made the statement during his address here in KS that the goverment had NOT been "trolling" or "dragging a net" through all communications.....
If he is to be beleived then he HAS acted properly and within the law.
The question to me is if this is the truth or has the unwarranted and illegal monitoring of US citizens occurred, as has been reported.
By acting without oversight, Bush has himself cast the shadow of suspicion over himself and his actions.
When our goverment acts in such a manner, it is our duty and responsibility as citizens to demand an explanation and accounting for those actions and to censure our goverment for any wrong doing.
Failing to ask and demand such an explanation is when we start freely stripping ourselves of our rights and our liberties.This is what Franklins quote refers to.
I truely beleive that we have no choice but to question our goverment, not to undermine or diminish it, but as a nessacary step in maintaining it.
There have been too many americans who have shed their blood to give us our freedoms and rights to allow them to be put at risk without challenge.

 

I concur whole-heartedly. Makes you wonder what the rush was that would preclude them from gaining the authorization prior to the deed.

Hmmmm ....

PISTOL

 

Pistolwhipt and Chrisreyn: Very well said. This is my point as well. Government needs to be kept honest and accountable - regardless of the individual or political ideology. Corruption and abuse does not know party lines.

PISTOLWHIPT: Are you still active duty, if so, where, and what ship's have you served onboard? Any west coast homeports?

 

Steven ... you have a PM.

PISTOL

 

I want to add MY "THANK YOU FOR SERVING OUR COUNTRY".
It depresses me that so many believe it is the joke groups like the UN or the ACLU that are looking out for us. These hypocrites jump on any cause that defends the terrorists, rapists, or other criminals, but are strangely silent when our people are being beheaded, raped or tortured. Why do you suppose there has not been one supporting statement by the ACLU in favor of causes such as Jessica's law or one condemning statement on the rash of repeated rapists being turned loose without serving a single day in jail or prison? Just as guilty are the liberal judges who are educated at the ultra liberal law schools who state that prison "does nothing to rehabilitate" these criminals......so they return them to the streets so they can continue with their evil ways, destroying more innocent lives.
I am all for freedom, BUT with that freedom comes RESPONSIBILITY and willingness to make sacrifices.
Who was the communist leader who stated that we would be conquered without a shot being fired, because a decadent society will fall under its own weight? These are nowhere near the words of the original quote, but I believe the message is clear, as well as I believe we are witnessing the downfall.
Pre-9/11 mentality and worrying about minute details, such as our library records (how rediculous!) are helping to set us up for tragedies that have the potential of making the Twin Towers horrors like the tip of the iceburg. When I hear people state that we have no business meddling in the affairs of a country like Iran and their lunatic leader, it makes me want to puke! I used to think that I was gonna get lucky and be long gone before the real poo hit the fan, but thanks to the misguided bleeding heart ( especially for the bad guys) liberals, I no longer believe that is the case.
Ohh yeah....throw AARP in on my list of anti-American groups wishing the destruction of this wonderful country.
AARRGGHH!!

 

Stevan.
Though we see this issue slightly differently, I can't fault any of your points and really appreciate you sane and rational means of stating your points.
While I do not believe the administration (based on what I am hearing),is breaking the law, I DO believe it only makes sense to comply with the 72 hour rule.....as you state: Why Not?
Thanks for the rational comment.
Mike

 

Well, Bush gave a one on one interview with a CBS journalist and the highlights were braodcast on Good Mornign America today.
when asked why he is not complying with the 72 hour rule, Bush said that the "people who set up the program assure me that it isnt feasible and that doing so would tip off the terrorists"........

Is that reassurring or what???????

 

Why is it everyone claims he's done this without telling anyone, when he HAS briefed the members of congress who needed the briefings prior to this program being implemented? Including certain members who are now claiming they didn't know?

This is nothing but partisian politics at its worst.

 

Dang sure is...Thank God he has the wisdom to do what has to be done instead of worry about all this rhetoric.

 

Mmmm...........,Yeah.

Let's thank God he has surrounded himself with bright people.
He's not much of a thinker, that's for sure!
I bet he's practicing his State of the Union address right about now, with all the hand gestures and big words, I'm sure it's hard on him.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11079547/site/newsweek/

 

Wisdom to decide that the laws of our country are his to dismiss at a whim, or because "someone" told him it was better?
Larry, the point is that the warrants are issued by a secret FISA court, composed of the same congress he claims to have breifed. Why not comply with the law if it allows him to do what needs done? Why circumvent the laws?

 

Why circumvent the laws?

Simply because in the real world of battling terrorist,72 hours may as well be 5 years and in some situations it just is more important to keep track of these scumbags than waste time with bureaucratic nonsense.

Remember that many of these laws get drafted by people who never had to fight anything tougher than a Lobster tail. What looks good on paper does not always work well in the field.

We have a lot of pansyfied liberal laws that need revamping so we can get serious with these terrorist. They don't have to worry about all that silly stuff when planning to attack us, so why on earth would you want to tie the hands of the people going after them ?

People just don't seem to get the one very simplistic fact of all this, they WILL detonate a warhead in one of our major cities or at the very least a dirty bomb if we do not use EVERY tool we have to our advantage.

When that happens and 1.5 million people die from the blast and radiation sickness, all this stupid liberal rhetoric is going to look pretty dang silly. Who cares if they can hear your phone? Do you honestly think they have enough people to be able to hear everything you say?

I for one don't care if they know how I feel about my neighbor. I went to his face and told him along time ago. It is all about priorities and President Bush has his priorities straight. He knows this is a war, a real war and none like we have seen before. And it has to be fought like a war, not some silly College campus debate because Americans will die if we don't get it right.

I look at the big picture 1.5 million dead, or a lack of privacy on my phone......hmmm Sorry but I just don't understand what is so hard to comprehend here. I absolutely see the wisdom of giving them every tool they need without making them wait for approval to use it.

Everyone knows Saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction and we also watched as they got trucked out of the country because we waited too dang long to go in there and seize them. Had we been prepared to go in before he knew we were coming things would have been much different.

We can not afford to fight these people on a level playing field, anyone who believes that is fooling themselves. This enemy doesn't take time off for holiday, or spend his time worrying about his retirement portfolio, he lives for one thing only. To kill you and me.

He is raised from birth believing that he will make it to heaven only if he can rid the world of us non believers. In that manner the world can unite in Islam as his faith has told him it is divined to be. He isn't fighting for his country, he is fighting for his very soul and the soul of his children.

If you think for one second he doesn't believe 100% in his heart that GOD wants him to kill Americans, you are a fool. He has but one passion and that is to destroy you because you ARE the devil incarnate.

In order to combat this individual effectively we are going to have to use everything we have available, and a lot more. This is why I KNOW that what the President is doing is the right thing for America NOW!

We either get real tough, or real dead, there are no other options.

 

Larry, the tools are there for him to use, but there are laws that govern how they are used.all he has to do is inform the proper agency (within 72 hours) of being used.

President Bush admited he was wrong and there were no WMD's. Perhaps Afganastan is where we should have stayed and made our statement to the terrorists

 

Bush is one of these Lobster Tail eaters that has no idea what works in the field, as you put it. So why do we trust in this Lobster Tail Eater over the next. I guarantee if it was a demo, you would be saying "STOP, THIS IS WRONG". Buy the way, this "pansyfied liber law" as you call it, was made as the result of Nixon.

Finally, FISA or no FISA, doesnt stop Bush from doing his job. Bush failing to take the APPROPRIATE action is what Bush is doing wrong. Bush could have exercises his power before 9/11, but didnt. Why do we trust him to do it now? Bush's hands are not tied, never have been, that's just a smoke screen that ultra-fundamentalists like to promote. If a warhead is going to be detonated on one of our major cities, it has nothing to do with whether or not he complied with the FISA laws. That's just smoke again. He can gets the same intelligence whether or not he complies with FISA. 1.5 million will not die because Bush has a reporting requirement. B.S.

You may not "care" or appreciate the rights and freedoms that our founding fathers fought to obtain, but some of us do. Americans should not die because of red tape - like armor on vehicles, like fighting a war that was misrepresented to the American People, like not having sufficient personnel to cover their Edit, etcetera, but they are. American soldiers, sailors and marines are dying today because of the red tape and Lobster Eaters that you for some reason defend on the one hand and criticize on the other.

Regarding the WMD's, come on, you think if Bush can prove the WMD's got trucked out of Iraq he wouldnt be more than happy to show it. This guy is doing everything he can to prove the WMD's and cant. His approval ratings are in the toilet, anything he can do to better himself and justify the war, oil, katrina, whatever, he will do it, anyone in his position would. And being prepared to go into Iraq, do you realize you just shot Bush in the behind with that statement and you may as well sign up for Kerry's campaign as his campaign manager. The idea that the U.S. should have been prepared is the battle cry of the demos. What, do you think being prepared was someone elses fault?

Everyone agrees, the terrorists want to kill you and me. Nobody, and i mean nobody disagrees with that. This isnt breaking news. The military and intelligence community has always, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, been there for this purpose. What's that have to do with Bush or how this war is fought in Iraq and how it is fought against terror? Nothing prevented Bush from using intel before, nothing now. But, I can tell you what, if the soldiers that were sent to Iraq, were instead sent to Afghanistan, and told dont quit until you find every terrorist, ESPECIALLY BIN LADEN, they would have had the necessary man power and machine to get the job done. Instead, Bush in all his wisdom, decides, that Sadam was a bigger threat than Bin Laden, the guy who actually attacked the U.S., they guy we should put all focus on. Bush took those resources and sent them after sadam, that was already cornered and not going anywhere. Bush failed to get the prize and still fails today. Will Bin Laden attack again, most likely, could bush have stopped him if he used soldiers in Iraq to go to Afghanistan instead, and sweep across the country, most likely. Did bush create the mess, no, but did bush fix it, no. I think we are playing on Bin Laden's playing field when we cannot stop him in Afghanistan because we lack manpower.

So, where did Bin Laden come from? Since Bush is doing the right thing now, who did the wrong thing? Iran-Contra, Afghanistan-Soviet, Sadam, which administration before Bush W., created and/or failed to take serious the threat? I know what you will say, Clinton, he's an easy scape goat. WRONG. Bin Laden said, when he was being trained by Americans, that he would destroy the soviets because they invaded his brothers [muslims] land. After america pulled out (reagan), he said you betrayed me, now I will kill you americans. Reagan, Bush sr., and all the way up to today, have contributed to this problem thru U.S. policy. Throw rocks where they are deserved. Tell us what the problem is instead of broad intimations that if your against Bush you are the problem and millions will die.
V/R