I was wondering what your thoughts are about the 3rd. generation 24-V engines.
Do you think they will be able to last as long and be as durable as a 1st. generation 12-V
with the mechanical pump?
I am sure there must be some high mile late model trucks out there maybe close to 3/4 million mile.
But I wonder if they made it without any electronics malfunctions, lift pump, cps, tps failures?
Makes you think maybe there is a little planed (failure) obsolescence going on.
I have over 300K on my truck and the only thing I have replaced on my engine is the side cover gaskets and the valve cover gaskets, water pump and starter.
It starts on the first revolution and idles smooth.
What do you think?
Jim


BTW I was also wondering on the 24-V since the throttle pedel is not connected to the pump and is fly by wire what gives you the feedback to your foot V/S engine response?
The vibration?

 

I have always believed that failures are built into most everything. One example is rubber timing belts on a lot of 4 and 6 cyl engines. Some even tell you in the Manuel that it need to be replaced at about 60k miles. Another is appliances. I was told by a long time salesman that the new ones were designed to last about eight years before failure. A sad situation........

 

Jim, I sell appliances and like everything else they are designed to fail after X amount of time. I believe that this would also be true about automotive electronics. I will NEVER give up my mechanical engine for electronic. Besides you just won TOM and as you said starts and idles smooth every time right

Michael

 

Drive by wire is really quite transparent. You don't even notice it.

To the main question - yeah, I think there will be some electronic trucks that get to 300k with minor repairs and no sensor problems. Now that the VP44 is gone I think long term riliability will go back up.

 

talk to the hotshots who have the new trucks. the one running for oil service companies can do 100K / year if they wanted to.

 

Ive got a third gen, and other than a lift pump failure at 22.5k miles, and a replacement of an in tank pump ala the 05's, I don't have any doubts my truck will last at least 500k miles.
Scott

 

Fly by wires... I can't stand them.

I'm a two-footed driver, so I like to rest my feet on the pedals or have a little bit of slack when I'm going around corners or powerbraking... I don't know why new cars all have to be so sensitive, but it is just a pain the butt.

I don't know how the pedals get pressure though. Brakes are still hydraulic, but as for the gas- who knows. (Clutch pedals are still mechanical too, right?)

 

Theres a reason they design it to fail. Its called economy. New features are also worth getting.

Would you be happy seeing a million model T's on the road since they never designed a different one, since it never failed?

Would you like to have the same black and white tv? Of course you would, why buy a new one? yours has never failed, right?

Manual windows and locks are no longer cool. They have these remotes that unlock your doors... ya hear of those? Cool huh.

 

Good point timmay02.

I for one hate drive by wire. I don't trust electronics. Never really have and never really will. Especially when it comes to brake by wire and steer by wire. At least when I lose a belt I can still man handle the steering wheel around. Or if the pump goes out I can still man handle it. What happens when the steering input sensor dies. Can you still steer? What about braking? If the sensor that tells the master cylinder to apply fluid dies do you still have a mechanical connection to stop you or are you just screwed? Throttle by wire has been around for many years and I'm just now starting to trust it (although I'm still very leary of it).

 

I gotta seccond the Texan, the electronis stuff mat be all well and good, but what about WHEN it fails, what do I do then? Run over the biker in front of me? Or the jogger on the sidewalk?

Sometimes I wish I had a 12v

 

I like how you put it as when, not if. Electronics WILL fail. It's just a matter of when. Everything electronic I've ever owned has failed on me. Whether it be 6 months or 10 years, it has failed on me.

 

And the electronic stuff frequently goes with little or no warning.

 

I do not trust electronics to control vital systems like braking and steering because there is always a chance it will fail.
I don't trust fly or drive by wire at all in a auto, at least in aircraft there is a redundant system for the just in case.
Look how many post there have been here about the crank sensors going out or loosing your throttle because your sensor went bad.
Then if that is not bad enough, the ECM's are not EMP hardened.
So now your thinking why would he worry about his ECM being unprotected? must be one of those guys huh Well it might just be in the grand scheme of things for THEM to be able to control your vehicle.
Well if it is not bad eough that your truck will have problems on it's own with all of the electronic controls.
They are already talking about using EMP's to knock out your car in Kalifornia.
Kinda makes you wonder.

I have been working in electronics since the old Philco Ford loctal base 7 & 9 pin vacuum tubes so I have seen a lot of technology being born.
BTW Hope I am not wearing a pacemaker.
http://www.engadget.com/entry/6178631328674953
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...111211,00.html

 

I think you need to study some of todays A/C Jim. There are a lot of them today with out any mechanical link to flight controls. Yes there is some redundancy (multiple systems not mechanical connections) and 99% of the time it is the monitoring systems that fail and not the system itself. All these things make the STATISTICAL odds of a crash billions to one. But I think it is 50/50. It will or it won't break.

As for our trucks. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. To me the main disadvantage is cost. As they become better due to electronics they become more expensive to fix. I am contimplating a $1600 dollar VP, but it is not an $1800 dollar P-7100 (which I have seen die as frequently as the VP in Rams in a harsh enviroment that the VP would have survived). I also do not have to pay $200 per injector like the HPRC.

Is the fuel economey, power band, smoke (more or less), ect.. worth the cost. Pick your posion. You'll spend it one way or the other and just like our Spicer three speeds parts will dry up someday. BTW, auto sensors seem to have a better life span then aviation sensors. I am not sure if it is the temp cycles, temp extreme, or simply the rapid hour count.

Randy

 

See that is a very good idea, however the possiblility to do something devistating with that is just waiting to happen. Yes the police want to use a EMP to disable a car's electrical system. That's great but just like the black market one person gets one of those and gets on the plane and pulls the trigger from his pocket, down goes plane.

I never trusted one with electronics either, they will fail, they will smoke, and they can catch fire. Like all have said they normally fail all of a sudden, no signs what so ever. I like my 3rd gen and love it to death, but it does make me wonder sometimes. My old bronco you could hold the carberator open by hand and drive home, it was great. Yeah it only got 8mpg (not bad for the lift and tires it had) but still, it would run no matter what. Only 8 wires went to that motor, and it was so easy to fix. I'm hoping my 3rd gen lasts that long and that the electronics last, i can't afford one of these again. This baby is gonna last me a long time.