Garage Lighting (aka DTR soap) "As The Sparks Fly"
08-16-2011, 07:44 PM
#32
I wish I was as fine, as those who work the pipeline!
Cant run lights on a 100Amp circuit. Ceiling outlet is your best bet. Actually you can, but you have to have really heavy wire. IIRC 4 gauge, might be bigger though I would have to look that up. Running 12 gauge wire the highest amperage you can have is 20 Amp. 14 gauge is 15 Amp. so when you go to wire things up you have to have 12 gauge wire. You can run 14 gauge pig tails to make the receptacles easier to connect. 12 gauge wire can be a bear to work with. If you are running in conduit, you are not supposed to run ROMEX either. If it were me, I would run it in the attic space above your garage, and use remodel ceiling junction boxes so you don't have to nail to rafters. It will only cost you about a buck per junction box more and save a huge headache!!
Wiring is easy. Black to black to brass screws, white to white to silver screws, bare (ground) to bare or green to green screws. When you hook up your switch, I always use 12-3. black wire comes from you outlet to your switch, red wire returns to your first ceiling fixture and splices with your black wire going to the next box and a pigtail going to the ceiling fixture. Whites all go together, grounds all go together. Never, never never never never never run the load through a fixture, always run the fixture off a pigtail. It is just a safety thing. you don't have all the current of the circuit being drawn through every receptacle, only the draw of the individual receptacle. You can't do it with ceiling fixtures but outlets you can. They have two sets of screws, I never use the second set, well not with one circuit in the outlet anyway. Always use pigtails. Then be sure to put at least three full wraps of electrical tape around the wire nut, and the wire a full tape width below any exposed wire or the bottom of the wire nut, whichever is furthest. Another thing you may want to consider is not having one big loop, but right side and left side. You can even switch them separately that way if you so desire.
The only other thing really is to make sure that you don't run your wire in the attic on top of the rafters (think walking on top of them in the attic). Run them on the side or better yet on the ceiling with runners (supported of course) down to the fixtures. Running on the side of the rafters is just fine though.
Kinda long, sorry. The wife is stuck behind an accident on the highway so I am kinda bored. Figured I would try to learn ya up, assuming of course you don't know this stuff already!!
Wiring is easy. Black to black to brass screws, white to white to silver screws, bare (ground) to bare or green to green screws. When you hook up your switch, I always use 12-3. black wire comes from you outlet to your switch, red wire returns to your first ceiling fixture and splices with your black wire going to the next box and a pigtail going to the ceiling fixture. Whites all go together, grounds all go together. Never, never never never never never run the load through a fixture, always run the fixture off a pigtail. It is just a safety thing. you don't have all the current of the circuit being drawn through every receptacle, only the draw of the individual receptacle. You can't do it with ceiling fixtures but outlets you can. They have two sets of screws, I never use the second set, well not with one circuit in the outlet anyway. Always use pigtails. Then be sure to put at least three full wraps of electrical tape around the wire nut, and the wire a full tape width below any exposed wire or the bottom of the wire nut, whichever is furthest. Another thing you may want to consider is not having one big loop, but right side and left side. You can even switch them separately that way if you so desire.
The only other thing really is to make sure that you don't run your wire in the attic on top of the rafters (think walking on top of them in the attic). Run them on the side or better yet on the ceiling with runners (supported of course) down to the fixtures. Running on the side of the rafters is just fine though.
Kinda long, sorry. The wife is stuck behind an accident on the highway so I am kinda bored. Figured I would try to learn ya up, assuming of course you don't know this stuff already!!
08-16-2011, 08:05 PM
#33
There is no G. There is no G. Repeat after me, THERE IS NO G!
Thread Starter
Cant run lights on a 100Amp circuit. Ceiling outlet is your best bet. Actually you can, but you have to have really heavy wire. IIRC 4 gauge, might be bigger though I would have to look that up. Running 12 gauge wire the highest amperage you can have is 20 Amp. 14 gauge is 15 Amp. so when you go to wire things up you have to have 12 gauge wire. You can run 14 gauge pig tails to make the receptacles easier to connect. 12 gauge wire can be a bear to work with. If you are running in conduit, you are not supposed to run ROMEX either. If it were me, I would run it in the attic space above your garage, and use remodel ceiling junction boxes so you don't have to nail to rafters. It will only cost you about a buck per junction box more and save a huge headache!!
Wiring is easy. Black to black to brass screws, white to white to silver screws, bare (ground) to bare or green to green screws. When you hook up your switch, I always use 12-3. black wire comes from you outlet to your switch, red wire returns to your first ceiling fixture and splices with your black wire going to the next box and a pigtail going to the ceiling fixture. Whites all go together, grounds all go together. Never, never never never never never run the load through a fixture, always run the fixture off a pigtail. It is just a safety thing. you don't have all the current of the circuit being drawn through every receptacle, only the draw of the individual receptacle. You can't do it with ceiling fixtures but outlets you can. They have two sets of screws, I never use the second set, well not with one circuit in the outlet anyway. Always use pigtails. Then be sure to put at least three full wraps of electrical tape around the wire nut, and the wire a full tape width below any exposed wire or the bottom of the wire nut, whichever is furthest. Another thing you may want to consider is not having one big loop, but right side and left side. You can even switch them separately that way if you so desire.
The only other thing really is to make sure that you don't run your wire in the attic on top of the rafters (think walking on top of them in the attic). Run them on the side or better yet on the ceiling with runners (supported of course) down to the fixtures. Running on the side of the rafters is just fine though.
Kinda long, sorry. The wife is stuck behind an accident on the highway so I am kinda bored. Figured I would try to learn ya up, assuming of course you don't know this stuff already!!
Wiring is easy. Black to black to brass screws, white to white to silver screws, bare (ground) to bare or green to green screws. When you hook up your switch, I always use 12-3. black wire comes from you outlet to your switch, red wire returns to your first ceiling fixture and splices with your black wire going to the next box and a pigtail going to the ceiling fixture. Whites all go together, grounds all go together. Never, never never never never never run the load through a fixture, always run the fixture off a pigtail. It is just a safety thing. you don't have all the current of the circuit being drawn through every receptacle, only the draw of the individual receptacle. You can't do it with ceiling fixtures but outlets you can. They have two sets of screws, I never use the second set, well not with one circuit in the outlet anyway. Always use pigtails. Then be sure to put at least three full wraps of electrical tape around the wire nut, and the wire a full tape width below any exposed wire or the bottom of the wire nut, whichever is furthest. Another thing you may want to consider is not having one big loop, but right side and left side. You can even switch them separately that way if you so desire.
The only other thing really is to make sure that you don't run your wire in the attic on top of the rafters (think walking on top of them in the attic). Run them on the side or better yet on the ceiling with runners (supported of course) down to the fixtures. Running on the side of the rafters is just fine though.
Kinda long, sorry. The wife is stuck behind an accident on the highway so I am kinda bored. Figured I would try to learn ya up, assuming of course you don't know this stuff already!!
That's pretty helpful! It totally skipped my mind that I wouldn't be able to go through the 100A outlet. Looks like that decision is made then to go out the 20A outlet with some 12ga. I thought I'd run some individual wire since I have to pull it through the conduit. I heard Romex is not what you wanna try to fish. We've got the three wires - black, white and green so that seems simple enough.
The garage is attached and above it is the master bedroom. So no attic space up there which is the reason for running surface mount conduit on the garage walls. While it isn't the prettiest method, it will be more functional than what I'm working with now. I need more function.
I appreciate this practical info Jeff. I'm running at this blind, with my DH, a home improvement book and the google to support me
I'm sure I'll have some (dumb) questions as I go forward. 
08-16-2011, 08:43 PM
#34
There is no G. There is no G. Repeat after me, THERE IS NO G!
Thread Starter
Jeff, here's a Q that just popped, that 100A breaker services the entire front living room downstairs, plus various other outlets in the house (garage & upstairs bath). How did the builder wire that? What size wire would they use to run the 100A circuit? The only outlet on that circuit that runs a gfci is the one in the upstairs bathroom. I guess I'm just curious how they did that since that 100A breaker really sticks out. House was built in '85.
08-16-2011, 09:41 PM
#35
I wish I was as fine, as those who work the pipeline!
Jeff, here's a Q that just popped, that 100A breaker services the entire front living room downstairs, plus various other outlets in the house (garage & upstairs bath). How did the builder wire that? What size wire would they use to run the 100A circuit? The only outlet on that circuit that runs a gfci is the one in the upstairs bathroom. I guess I'm just curious how they did that since that 100A breaker really sticks out. House was built in '85.
08-17-2011, 12:42 PM
#36
There is no G. There is no G. Repeat after me, THERE IS NO G!
Thread Starter
Actually there is a subpanel installed next to the main panel. It's our understanding it was put in when they installed the hot tub. What you say about that 100A and subpanel has just connected the dots for me. When I mapped my circuits I found that the living room outlets mapped to the 100A breaker are also mapped on a 15A breaker in the subpanel. When I first mapped that I couldn't understand it. But now that makes sense.
I'm going to double check the garage wall outlet again to see if it is connected to the 15A on the subpanel. In my notes, it is not. But I'm thinking I would have double checked that when I found double coverage on the other outlets.
08-17-2011, 01:00 PM
#37
There is no G. There is no G. Repeat after me, THERE IS NO G!
Thread Starter
Found it. The garage wall outlet is also doubled up on that 100A breaker and a subpanel 20A.
Downstairs is already mapped (good thing I looked at it again!). I need to map upstairs to finish up my list.
Downstairs is already mapped (good thing I looked at it again!). I need to map upstairs to finish up my list.
08-17-2011, 02:50 PM
#38
There is no G. There is no G. Repeat after me, THERE IS NO G!
Thread Starter
Finished up. Answered some questions and came up with new ones.
The biggest is how the 100A breaker controls a single 15A breaker to override it. I ABOUT PEED MY PANTS WHEN I FLIPPED ON A LIGHT SWITCH IN THE DEN AND IT POWERED THE SWITCHES, LIGHTS AND RECEPTACLES I JUST POWERED OFF WITH A DIFFERENT BREAKER
I'm going to input my data in my spreadsheet before I go on describing things further. That way I can post the spreadsheet if I need to and we can look at the data together. Saves confusion
The biggest is how the 100A breaker controls a single 15A breaker to override it. I ABOUT PEED MY PANTS WHEN I FLIPPED ON A LIGHT SWITCH IN THE DEN AND IT POWERED THE SWITCHES, LIGHTS AND RECEPTACLES I JUST POWERED OFF WITH A DIFFERENT BREAKER
I'm going to input my data in my spreadsheet before I go on describing things further. That way I can post the spreadsheet if I need to and we can look at the data together. Saves confusion
08-17-2011, 03:08 PM
#39
Registered User
Finished up. Answered some questions and came up with new ones.
The biggest is how the 100A breaker controls a single 15A breaker to override it. I ABOUT PEED MY PANTS WHEN I FLIPPED ON A LIGHT SWITCH IN THE DEN AND IT POWERED THE SWITCHES, LIGHTS AND RECEPTACLES I JUST POWERED OFF WITH A DIFFERENT BREAKER
I'm going to input my data in my spreadsheet before I go on describing things further. That way I can post the spreadsheet if I need to and we can look at the data together. Saves confusion
The biggest is how the 100A breaker controls a single 15A breaker to override it. I ABOUT PEED MY PANTS WHEN I FLIPPED ON A LIGHT SWITCH IN THE DEN AND IT POWERED THE SWITCHES, LIGHTS AND RECEPTACLES I JUST POWERED OFF WITH A DIFFERENT BREAKER
I'm going to input my data in my spreadsheet before I go on describing things further. That way I can post the spreadsheet if I need to and we can look at the data together. Saves confusion
You have some wiring problems, wired incorrectly. That should not happen. Sounds like you need to have an electrician look at your house.As for the 100 amp and the 15 amp......... the 100 is the main breaker for the sub panel, it shuts off all power to the sub panel. Then the power is broken down smaller IE 15 amp 20 amp circuits. So the 100 amp will feed many 15 and 20 amp breakers. Turn off the 100 amp and all the breakers in that panel should be dead. DISCLAIMER: if you are not sure what you are doing have an electrician do it. There is enough power in there to kill you. Had to say it.
If this does not help I will try agian.
08-17-2011, 03:33 PM
#40
I wish I was as fine, as those who work the pipeline!
Yep,
Maxwell is right. The 100 AMP feeds the panel, the 15 and 20's go from the pane to the receptacles. When you are mapping the circuits, the receptacle that is on the 15 amp sub panel will also show up on the 100 amp as there is continuity throughout the whole circuit.
You can actually determine which circuits are in the sub panel from the 100 amp in your main panel as they will all show up at the 100 amp breaker. Then once you have all the circuits in the sub panel identified, you can identify the circuits for each breaker in the sub panel. Get it?
As far as outlets and lights on the same circuit. That unfortunately is sometimes common practice with some electricians. At the time (80's) there was really no hard and fast law against it, only suggestions. Thing is, you can save alot of wire by doing it that way. When I wire there are two home runs for every bedroom or section of the house. outlets, and lights. But that is another story...
Bring on the spread sheet, we will figure it out!!!
Maxwell is right. The 100 AMP feeds the panel, the 15 and 20's go from the pane to the receptacles. When you are mapping the circuits, the receptacle that is on the 15 amp sub panel will also show up on the 100 amp as there is continuity throughout the whole circuit.
You can actually determine which circuits are in the sub panel from the 100 amp in your main panel as they will all show up at the 100 amp breaker. Then once you have all the circuits in the sub panel identified, you can identify the circuits for each breaker in the sub panel. Get it?
As far as outlets and lights on the same circuit. That unfortunately is sometimes common practice with some electricians. At the time (80's) there was really no hard and fast law against it, only suggestions. Thing is, you can save alot of wire by doing it that way. When I wire there are two home runs for every bedroom or section of the house. outlets, and lights. But that is another story...
Bring on the spread sheet, we will figure it out!!!
08-17-2011, 04:19 PM
#42
There is no G. There is no G. Repeat after me, THERE IS NO G!
Thread Starter
Thanks guys. A little background, we bought this place in May 09. The POs updated it before they put it on the market by adding the one GFCI outlet in a bathroom in order for it to pass inspection.
I can't remember when the hot tub and subpanel went in, I have to look at the seller's report. But it was not original to the house. Our neighbor, Jan, who's been here since the start of the 'hood made a comment that a car went through our kitchen once after it lost control and tore through the backyard from the street above. We were not aware of this, at all.
Ok, here we go. Ask questions, I'll fill ya in
Floor plan: Black labels downstairs, blue upstairs. Ignore the red in the garage. Red squares at NE corner are service panels.
Couldn't figure out how to upload a spreadsheet, here's the data though.
Main Panel 150A, #1-20. Breaker 14,16 (100A) to Subpanel, #5-8.
Location Breaker Number Size (Amps)
Garage: wall outlet Sub 8 20A
ceiling outlet 17 top 20A
ceiling light & hall switch 18 bottom 15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off!
1/2 bath: wall outlet Sub 8 20A
mirror light 18 bottom 15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off!
light/vent switch 18 bottom 15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off!
Laundry: light switch 18 bottom 15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off!
Den: wall outlet (next to vent W. wall) Sub 6 15A
wall outlet (behind utility room) 18 bottom 15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off!
wall outlet (TV S.wall) 18 bottom 15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off!
wall outlet (R of fireplace) 20 bottom 15A
wall outlet (L of fireplace) 20 bottom 15A
wall outlet (pantry side) 20 bottom 15A
ceiling fan/light switch 20 bottom 15A
outside deck light switch 20 bottom 15A
Kitchen: wall outlet (R side bay window) 19 bottom 20A
wall oulet (L side bay window) 19 bottom 20A
wall outlet (next to phone jack) 13 bottom 20A
wall outlet (next to disposal switch) 13 bottom 20A
wall outlet (behind spaghetti N. wall) 13 bottom 20A
wall outlet (coffee maker N. wall) 15 bottom 20A
wall outlet (toaster) 15 bottom 20A
light switches (pantry side) 20 bottom 15A
microwave 19 top 20A
stove 9, 11 40A
fridge
disposal 17 bottom 20A
dishwasher
Front Living Room: wall outlet (behind Chester's crate) 19 bottom 20A
wall outlet (Fios box N. wall) 19 bottom 20A
wall outlet (mid wall N. wall) Sub 6 15A
wall outlet (far left N. wall) Sub 6 15A
wall outlet (under big window W. wall) Sub 6 15A
wall outlet (at front door) Sub 6 15A
light switches (front door) Sub 6 15A
light switches (hallway, outlet) Sub 6 15A
outside outlet (front door) Sub 6 15A
dimmer light switch 20 bottom 15A
^ Workroom: wall outlet (N. wall) Sub 5 15A
wall outlet (E. wall) Sub 5 15A
wall outlet (S. wall) Sub 5 15A
light switch Sub 5 15A
^ Office/Bdrm: wall outlet (N. wall) Sub 5 15A
wall outlet (E. wall) Sub 5 15A
wall outlet (S. wall) Sub 5 15A
light switch Sub 5 15A
^ Hall Bath: wall sink outlet - GFCI Sub 8 20A
light/vent switches 20 top 15A
^ Master Bdrm: wall outlet (N. wall/hair dryer) 18 top 15A
wall outlet (N. wall by closet) 18 top 15A
closet light switch 18 top 15A
wall outlet (W. wall) 18 top 15A
wall outlet (S. wall/my side) 20 top 15A
wall outlet (S. wall/his side) 20 top 15A
wall outlet (E. wall) 20 top 15A
light/fan switch 20 top 15A
^ Master Bath: sink outlet Sub 8 20A
light switch 18 top 15A
toilet light/vent switches 18 top 15A
^ HVAC Unit: AC 2,4 40A
Heater circuit 1 1,3 60A
Heater circuit 2 5,7 25A
Hot water heater: garage (N. wall) 6,8 30A
Clothes dryer: laundry room 10,12 30A
I can't remember when the hot tub and subpanel went in, I have to look at the seller's report. But it was not original to the house. Our neighbor, Jan, who's been here since the start of the 'hood made a comment that a car went through our kitchen once after it lost control and tore through the backyard from the street above. We were not aware of this, at all.
Ok, here we go. Ask questions, I'll fill ya in
Floor plan: Black labels downstairs, blue upstairs. Ignore the red in the garage. Red squares at NE corner are service panels.
Couldn't figure out how to upload a spreadsheet, here's the data though.
Main Panel 150A, #1-20. Breaker 14,16 (100A) to Subpanel, #5-8.
Location Breaker Number Size (Amps)
Garage: wall outlet Sub 8 20A
ceiling outlet 17 top 20A
ceiling light & hall switch 18 bottom 15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off!
1/2 bath: wall outlet Sub 8 20A
mirror light 18 bottom 15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off!
light/vent switch 18 bottom 15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off!
Laundry: light switch 18 bottom 15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off!
Den: wall outlet (next to vent W. wall) Sub 6 15A
wall outlet (behind utility room) 18 bottom 15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off!
wall outlet (TV S.wall) 18 bottom 15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off!
wall outlet (R of fireplace) 20 bottom 15A
wall outlet (L of fireplace) 20 bottom 15A
wall outlet (pantry side) 20 bottom 15A
ceiling fan/light switch 20 bottom 15A
outside deck light switch 20 bottom 15A
Kitchen: wall outlet (R side bay window) 19 bottom 20A
wall oulet (L side bay window) 19 bottom 20A
wall outlet (next to phone jack) 13 bottom 20A
wall outlet (next to disposal switch) 13 bottom 20A
wall outlet (behind spaghetti N. wall) 13 bottom 20A
wall outlet (coffee maker N. wall) 15 bottom 20A
wall outlet (toaster) 15 bottom 20A
light switches (pantry side) 20 bottom 15A
microwave 19 top 20A
stove 9, 11 40A
fridge
disposal 17 bottom 20A
dishwasher
Front Living Room: wall outlet (behind Chester's crate) 19 bottom 20A
wall outlet (Fios box N. wall) 19 bottom 20A
wall outlet (mid wall N. wall) Sub 6 15A
wall outlet (far left N. wall) Sub 6 15A
wall outlet (under big window W. wall) Sub 6 15A
wall outlet (at front door) Sub 6 15A
light switches (front door) Sub 6 15A
light switches (hallway, outlet) Sub 6 15A
outside outlet (front door) Sub 6 15A
dimmer light switch 20 bottom 15A
^ Workroom: wall outlet (N. wall) Sub 5 15A
wall outlet (E. wall) Sub 5 15A
wall outlet (S. wall) Sub 5 15A
light switch Sub 5 15A
^ Office/Bdrm: wall outlet (N. wall) Sub 5 15A
wall outlet (E. wall) Sub 5 15A
wall outlet (S. wall) Sub 5 15A
light switch Sub 5 15A
^ Hall Bath: wall sink outlet - GFCI Sub 8 20A
light/vent switches 20 top 15A
^ Master Bdrm: wall outlet (N. wall/hair dryer) 18 top 15A
wall outlet (N. wall by closet) 18 top 15A
closet light switch 18 top 15A
wall outlet (W. wall) 18 top 15A
wall outlet (S. wall/my side) 20 top 15A
wall outlet (S. wall/his side) 20 top 15A
wall outlet (E. wall) 20 top 15A
light/fan switch 20 top 15A
^ Master Bath: sink outlet Sub 8 20A
light switch 18 top 15A
toilet light/vent switches 18 top 15A
^ HVAC Unit: AC 2,4 40A
Heater circuit 1 1,3 60A
Heater circuit 2 5,7 25A
Hot water heater: garage (N. wall) 6,8 30A
Clothes dryer: laundry room 10,12 30A
08-17-2011, 04:30 PM
#43
There is no G. There is no G. Repeat after me, THERE IS NO G!
Thread Starter
You have some wiring problems, wired incorrectly. That should not happen. Sounds like you need to have an electrician look at your house.As for the 100 amp and the 15 amp......... the 100 is the main breaker for the sub panel, it shuts off all power to the sub panel. Then the power is broken down smaller IE 15 amp 20 amp circuits. So the 100 amp will feed many 15 and 20 amp breakers. Turn off the 100 amp and all the breakers in that panel should be dead. DISCLAIMER: if you are not sure what you are doing have an electrician do it. There is enough power in there to kill you. Had to say it.
If this does not help I will try agian.Precisely what I'm thinking. The SubPanel breaker #14,16 turned on a main panel breaker!!
And through a common on/off switch on our den wall!That shouldn't be able to happen right? I understand that #14,16 powers the subpanel breakers, but not an independent breaker in the main.
And no insult taken one bit about the disclaimer. I'm no electrician. I'm not dumb the concept of electricity and SIMPLE BASIC procedures but I know when to leave this stuff to the big boys.
08-17-2011, 04:34 PM
#44
I wish I was as fine, as those who work the pipeline!
what do you mean by this...
15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off! specifically what is 18B
pm me your spreadsheet
or email it - precision@rtconnect.net
15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off! specifically what is 18B
pm me your spreadsheet
or email it - precision@rtconnect.net
08-17-2011, 04:53 PM
#45
There is no G. There is no G. Repeat after me, THERE IS NO G!
Thread Starter
what do you mean by this...
15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off! specifically what is 18B
pm me your spreadsheet
or email it - precision@rtconnect.net
15A WARNING - SWITCH IN DEN ABOVE VENT: 14,16 powers 18B when 18B is off! specifically what is 18B
pm me your spreadsheet
or email it - precision@rtconnect.net
Just made a warning note to myself about it until it gets figured out.
18B (B for bottom) is a breaker in the main panel.
What happened was I turned on the outlets I suspected or already knew of being on 18B. Then I turned off breaker 18B and those lights and outlets went out as expected. For some reason I looked at and walked over to this light switch on our den wall. This switch is on the wall that contains an outlet that is on the Sub 6 circuit. Which is peculiar because the rest of the room is on 20B or 18B. It never gets used for anything because we had no idea what it turns on in the den. It isn't a light switch. It isn't a fan switch. So I flipped it on and the lights and things that were off from the 18B circuit all then turned on! I assumed it was from the 14,16 breaker.
WHAT. THE. HE-DOUBLEHOCKEYSTICKS!
I got chills because just earlier this year DH replaced the garage ceiling light porcelain mount (18B) because it was broken. Knowing that he has worked on that he could have easily been killed if someone flipped that switch.
So I noted that since the 18B circuit breaker when off can go live from another source.
I'll email the spreadsheet.
Also I'm going to try to label the locations of outlets and switches on my diagram there to help draw the map better.