[quote author=dealseeker link=board=10;threadid=12794;start=60#122909 date=1049176138]<br>Bullfrogjim, did you ever think for a minute that this thread would lead to the Canuckleheads planning the overhaul of our government? <br>[/quote]<br>Not exactly but wouldnt it be nice! In actuallity I just wanted to show that there is more of a brotherhood between the states and most of Canada that the press does its best to tear down &gt;

 

GreatWhite - nice history lesson in layman's terms. Tool, you are wrestling with the same questions faced by every democratic society in history: how to protect individual rights, ensuring equality, without taking from one to provide for another. There have been many attempts throughout history to come up with the &quot;perfect&quot; system that will do both - always unsuccessfully. Same difficulty with US and Canadian representative governmental attempts, there is NO PERFECT SOLUTION. Some will feel screwed, some happy - but over time that turns around and the two swap places. A certain amount of compromise is required to formulate a society where all groups are represented and try to give some means of equal representation to each. In the American Republic (its name before officially called the United States of America), this was a question that took 13 years to solve. The answer was representation by population (house of representatives) and representation by entity or statehood (senate - 2 senators per state regardless of size or population). This attempted to balance the &quot;rule by mob&quot; where the masses could demand the wealth of the few who produced most of it, while also protecting the masses from legalized pilferage by the rich. The idea was that each half of the representative congress would be able to counter the other in any move to abuse the other class (senate was originally the wealthy while the house was comprised of local &quot;everyday&quot; citizens). It is not a perfect system, as any American taxpayer will gladly tell you, but it works better than most of the &quot;socialist democracies&quot; of Europe given historical precedence of happiness and opportunity level of any given citizen. I'll get off my lecture series now.

 

Tool, its a kinda Readers Digest condensed novel sorta history, but ... And I am being civil. Don't care where you live in the Great White North, you are a fellow Canadian and perhaps even more importantly A fellow Dodge Ram kinda guy. But the whole thing is summed up in your post. Those in the west see a problem. Those in the east see no problem. And therein lies the problem. The status quo doesn't work. The House of Commons could remain as a rep by pop house as it is now. A most effective first step would be an ELECTED equal and effective second house made up of 2 or 3 representatives from each province/territory. The second house would be able to amend and propose legislation and not just be a rubber stamp as it is now. And regions could at least voice their visions and concerns. So why shouldn't PEI have equal representation to Ont. in this second house? Montana and California have equal reps in the U.S. Senate. It's worked for over 200 years there, maybe it would work in Canada. As for health care and roads. Health care is a Federal responsibility and as such should be funded by the feds. It used to be. Highways are a provincial responsibility, and in MB, 97% of our fuel taxes go into the Dept. of Highways budget. Federal fuel tax goes into black hole known as General Revenue and is used to build golf courses in Shawinigan and propping up Bombardier etc. We need a national highway program and we are the only country in the so-called industrialized nations without one. The reason the Trans-Canada is so poor from T Bay to MB is because (wait for it) theres not enough population (see Cdn History abridged). No votes from moose and squirrel and beaver etc so no money for asphalt. Simple huh? As for mfg, it has come lately to the west because of the huge number of trucks on the roads keeping frt costs in line. Cheaper and more expedient than rail now (go figure), but frt rates held the west back for about 90 years. BTW Alberta was the poorest province in Canada until 1949 when they hit Leduc #1 in 49 and for another 30 years after that they still GOT transfer payments. That strong economy didn't hit until the mid 70's. Now if Manitoba and its great rivers and Hydro electric power generation, Saskatchewan with its great fertile land, Alberta with the oil reseves and B.C. with all its timber were to band together as ONE province we would see where the power base moved to in this great country. But Maybe we should not hijack this thread. And I give credit because at least you asked the question. My aunt who moved to Oshawa in the 60's from Winnipeg always said, &quot;The problem is that the west thinks the east hates them. It's just not so. You have to know something exists before you can hate it&quot; And if you ever travel my way, let me know, I'll buy you a Blue or three and we can discuss this all night long until we solve it. Fair enough? Oh in case I forgot to mention that unlike our pathetic excuse for a ruling party who governs strictly by the result of the last Gallup Poll, I support the efforts of the Coalition forces in Iraq.

 

well you'll see manitoba taking advantage of it's rivers with a few more hydro dams in the next 10 years or so ........<br><br>of course the first 2 (wuskwatim &amp; gull) will probably be given to the 1st nations communities close by (nelson house &amp; split lake) :<br><br>but that's another discussion , one wich I won't engage in publicly online <br><br>as for the east west thing ...........well, I don't think that's gonna change any time soon

 

Geez dodgeram why not . Living in gillam, who would your employer be anyway? But hey it will be a good thing for the North. Nothing like a few dams to get the economy booming again.

 

well said greatwhite took the words right out of my mouth. Only time the feds listen to us out west when there precious tax dollars can't fill up there general revenue trough

 

oh yeah there'll be lots of constructio jobs for a while anyways .........nothing like gov't projects to boost the economy <br><br>and yeah I'm pretty sure you know who my employer is ...........

 

Well, here is one reason why we're not participating in Iraqi Freedom. The Sea Kings have a lot of problems but we have a crack team working on them.

 

Boy, don't even get me started on the gun registry or all that other political nonsense.
Bottom line.... we have a very proud and honourable military. They have MORE than carried their load in previous conflicts of all sorts, they have paid the ultimate price for our freedoms and excesses. They are currently in Afhganistan (sp?) on the ground, getting dirty.
One thing remains though.... as I noted in my first post....

Our military personel must be absolutely committed or, perhaps should be &quot;committed&quot; to stay in the service.
Hard as it is to believe, they would go overseas, put their lives on the line if asked, and go knowing that they'd be expected to do the same job as other armed services/countries, and they'd do it with pride.
I personally would not shame them, by forcing them into such a situation when, they have been victims of what can only be described as &quot;criminal neglect&quot;.
Last, no matter how you characterize the decision to go into this war, friends, like family, stick with each other and sort out the lumps later.
I do not relish the thought of the total cost of this war, but I do think that you should stand with your friends/allies when push comes to shove, as it has now. Heck, we could even be providing support/assistance in general terms and that would at least be considered honourable and an effort worth recognizing, unlike what we have now.
The current situation is a disgrace and a dishonour to those who did the job in years gone by. Personally **I** owe them more than that, and so do my children.
In case my sentiments are unclear...... kick some *** and take some names......

bob.

 

Why I think PEI (as an example) shouldn't have as many votes as say Ontario.<br><br>1. I'd aproximate that 15X or more, people live in Ontario.<br>This is supposed to be a democracy. In essence that would mean that an islanders vote counts for 15 and my vote counts for 1 or less than.<br><br>To me that would mean an even greater imbalance of power than the current situation. <br>Basically if I wanted to have a greater political voice in this situation I could A. run for a government office or B. Move to a less populated province.<br><br>What I meant by the Trans-Canada through T-Bay and such was all of it. not just T-Bay to Manitoba More like North Bay Up. Which is about a 20 hour drive, a really big stretch of road. Don't think that the roads in Ontario or elsewhere are much greater than the ones in your locale. Trust me I've driven a lot of them.<br><br>But in any case, I know we aren't going to solve the country's political debates in this thread. I know we aren't going to see all of these issues eye to eye. <br>However anyone who wants to discuss this debate with me is more than welcome to do so any time. So long as it is in a constructive manner. Not the &quot;Let The Eastern B*st***s Freeze In The Dark!&quot; bumper sticker mentality.<br><br>Again, I tell you if you think the west has it rough, go live in the maritimes and see what lack of infrastructure, poverety and crumbling economies really look like.<br><br>We really have hijacked this thread away from the war. For that I apoligise.<br><br>And if you ever travel my way, let me know, I'll buy you a Blue or three and we can discuss this all night long until we solve it. Fair enough? <br><br>Definitely. I will take you up on that for sure. Likewise for anyone else heading my way.<br><br>This is a GREAT country we live in. Why do you suppose Canada ranks as one of and often THE best place to live??? Why do you suppose so many of my American friends sew Canadian flags onto their luggage when they travel internationally?? <br>I HATE the separitist BS and also view it as treason as someone else allready mentioned. <br><br>Anyway, moving on.<br><br>God bless the troops overseas.

 

Forgive my ignorance but I'm trying to follow all permutations of this thread. What is &quot;PEI&quot;? I presume T-Bay means Thunder Bay.<br><br>~JustcuriousDave

 

Prince Edward Island eh??

 

[quote author=NWDave link=board=10;threadid=12794;start=75#123739 date=1049377126]<br>Forgive my ignorance but I'm trying to follow all permutations of this thread. What is &quot;PEI&quot;? I presume T-Bay means Thunder Bay.<br><br>~JustcuriousDave<br>[/quote]<br><br>Prince Edward Island<br>Way out east.<br><br>scottyintheprairies

 

yeah it's so far east I kind of forget it exists ..........when I say east I mean ontario

 

(Stepping up onto the soapbox)<br>Ahm....<br><br>War is H**L! I'm not for what is happinging in Iraq, but something did have to be done. My question is: Who is next? There are lot of atrocities (where did I get that word?) in a lot of countries happening. When do they get the attention from the world? <br><br>I wish that James Bond really existed, or someone like Carlos ( the assassin) was available for hire to take out World Leaders that commit acts against their peoples. Does that make it right? I'm not the judge on that.<br><br>God bless the troops overseas. Watch over those that fight for what they believe in. I'd much rather see world leaders duke it out in the boxing ring or something similar. Let them bloody their noses, and not sacrifice people for their causes!<br><br>(steps down, without tripping......)<br>