any horse experts on here
07-07-2007, 07:39 AM
#1
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any horse experts on here
My wife had her niece's boyfriend come out and shoe our daughters horse,
he supposed to have grown up around horses and knew what he was doing. This horse is very gentle except for one thing , He does not like people jacking with his legs and hooves. so after 4 hours of cussing, drawn blood and going to get the neighbor to give the horse a shot to calm him down, he only managed to trim and shoe the front, even after the shot the horse would not let Him mess with his hind legs. after giving up He tells my daughter that they only shoe the front on their roping horse and he is fine to ride anywhere like he is, Is that right?
he supposed to have grown up around horses and knew what he was doing. This horse is very gentle except for one thing , He does not like people jacking with his legs and hooves. so after 4 hours of cussing, drawn blood and going to get the neighbor to give the horse a shot to calm him down, he only managed to trim and shoe the front, even after the shot the horse would not let Him mess with his hind legs. after giving up He tells my daughter that they only shoe the front on their roping horse and he is fine to ride anywhere like he is, Is that right?
07-07-2007, 07:47 AM
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I have seen horses only shod in the front and they seemed to be okay. . . but if it took him that long to do it and he had that much trouble I would be tempted to get a real farrier out to do them right. If you get a set of shoes on there wrong they can really mess a horse up. Most could tell by looking if you are going to have trouble, at least around here.
07-07-2007, 08:06 AM
#3
DTR's Cow Boss
EEEGADS he don't sound competent at all find your self a real farrier and watch the difference you get with a true horseman and a dude. With that said if its just a arena horse and rope horse then you could get away with fronts only but if not i would really try on getting fronts n hinds on. If he is a real out law about it see if your new farrier i would not want this other guy to try this but you can nerve line him all that is just a simple stud chain under his front lip against the nerve and the gums and is run though a halter. If he screws around you can pop him lightly and he wont like it none but after a few times he would get the picture. I have one horse who is a complet jerk right now cause of leg trama with his feet and it still dont take me 4hrs to trim him.
07-07-2007, 09:05 AM
#4
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4 hours??!! I would get a real farrier. I have helped a guy shod his horses for the show arena. 4 hours for 4 horses. They do they put up a fight but the stocks help a little.
OH! Did I mention that they are 2,000lbs of lean draft horse muscle? Try shoeing them!
Jon
OH! Did I mention that they are 2,000lbs of lean draft horse muscle? Try shoeing them!
Jon
07-07-2007, 09:06 AM
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I am a full-time farrier for 17 years. Never let someone other than a full-time farrier who is competant shoe your horse. Everybody thinks they can shoe a horse. Theres more to it than trimming and slapping a shoe on it. Either shoe full time or not at all. I really dont even want to get started n my soapbox...
Dan
Dan
07-07-2007, 09:07 AM
#6
DTR's Cow Boss
I am a full-time farrier for 17 years. Never let someone other than a full-time farrier who is competant shoe your horse. Everybody thinks they can shoe a horse. Theres more to it than trimming and slapping a shoe on it. Either shoe full time or not at all. I really dont even want to get started n my soapbox...
Dan
Dan
Same here I said my peice
Most people just slap a plate shoe on and dont know how bad there angle is and either have too much heel and not enough toe or too much toe the horse trips and not enough heel or the quik the horse its just bad all involed if you dont know what your doin it can really make it worse for the next guy too
07-07-2007, 10:22 AM
#7
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Same here I said my peice
Most people just slap a plate shoe on and dont know how bad there angle is and either have too much heel and not enough toe or too much toe the horse trips and not enough heel or the quik the horse its just bad all involed if you dont know what your doin it can really make it worse for the next guy too
Most people just slap a plate shoe on and dont know how bad there angle is and either have too much heel and not enough toe or too much toe the horse trips and not enough heel or the quik the horse its just bad all involed if you dont know what your doin it can really make it worse for the next guy too
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07-07-2007, 10:23 AM
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thanks fellows, got a farrier on his way to finish the job, I'm going to have him redo the front too if he has the slightest dought about what this fool has done.
07-07-2007, 10:35 AM
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I have been shoeing horses since 1989, I took the time to go to farrier's school and learn to do them right. I am a certified Master Journeyman Farrier.
I had enough of the 'cowboy shoers' messing up my horses feet and giving them a bad attitude about having their feet trimmed, so I decided to go to school and learn to do it myself. That fellow did you NO favors, he has now taught your horse how to misbehave. When a horse does not like someone or does not trust them, that is a good reason NOT to use that person.
Whose blood was drawn? If it was the horses, and from the foot - you could have some serious stuff develope. If he 'quicked nailed' your horses foot, it could cause lameness/infection.
As the saying goes - no foot - no horse. Many unqualified people cause the NO HORSE situation. Get a good farrier, a certified journeyman. You will probably pay a little more for a quality shoeing job but less in vet bills, let alone the fact that you can't use a lame horse.
I shoe the front feet of my horses and just trim the rear feet. I use a shoe with a little traction but mostly a wide shoe that offers some protection from the rocks and gravel, I also clip the shoe at 2 points onto the toe. 85% of your horses traveling power comes off/out of the front end. The back basically is a steering mechanism. The dynamics of the hoof wall on the rear feet is what gives turning and stability, shoeing or 'casting' the foot decreases the dynamics. As others have pointed out, the angle is of significant importance, besides the usual interference problems that bad angles can cause, a bad angle or low angle can contribute to navicular disease. Navicular dissease will totally disable the horse. Over time the low angle will cause a degeneration of the foot, lameness that is irreversable.
We had a lot of what I call 'Navicular Neal's' shoeing horses in the 80's, that one disease that is caused primarily by bad shoeing and trimming IS/WAS my impetus to learn and do my horses right.
CD
I had enough of the 'cowboy shoers' messing up my horses feet and giving them a bad attitude about having their feet trimmed, so I decided to go to school and learn to do it myself. That fellow did you NO favors, he has now taught your horse how to misbehave. When a horse does not like someone or does not trust them, that is a good reason NOT to use that person.
Whose blood was drawn? If it was the horses, and from the foot - you could have some serious stuff develope. If he 'quicked nailed' your horses foot, it could cause lameness/infection.
As the saying goes - no foot - no horse. Many unqualified people cause the NO HORSE situation. Get a good farrier, a certified journeyman. You will probably pay a little more for a quality shoeing job but less in vet bills, let alone the fact that you can't use a lame horse.
I shoe the front feet of my horses and just trim the rear feet. I use a shoe with a little traction but mostly a wide shoe that offers some protection from the rocks and gravel, I also clip the shoe at 2 points onto the toe. 85% of your horses traveling power comes off/out of the front end. The back basically is a steering mechanism. The dynamics of the hoof wall on the rear feet is what gives turning and stability, shoeing or 'casting' the foot decreases the dynamics. As others have pointed out, the angle is of significant importance, besides the usual interference problems that bad angles can cause, a bad angle or low angle can contribute to navicular disease. Navicular dissease will totally disable the horse. Over time the low angle will cause a degeneration of the foot, lameness that is irreversable.
We had a lot of what I call 'Navicular Neal's' shoeing horses in the 80's, that one disease that is caused primarily by bad shoeing and trimming IS/WAS my impetus to learn and do my horses right.
CD
07-08-2007, 12:15 AM
#10
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I'm no horse expert, but I have been around them some, and logged with them a little, and I was lucky enough to know some really calm and gentle horsepeople. That what you described is not right. The difference between watching real horse people work with horses and watching those who don't know what they're doing can be amazing.
My truck came from a farrier, it used to have a gas forge and and anvil the flatbed that he made. My D-rings on the bed are horse shoes...
My truck came from a farrier, it used to have a gas forge and and anvil the flatbed that he made. My D-rings on the bed are horse shoes...
07-08-2007, 12:36 AM
#11
DTR's Night Watchman & Poet Laureate
I am a past trainer of Mounted Law Enforcement Horses , and still train part-time. I also show and sell foundation quarter horses.
I agree with what everyone above has said about this guy who tryed to shoe your horse and teh importance of a good , knowledgable farrier.
I consider myself a pretty good hand with a horse, and years ago learned that trimming and shoeing is NOT something everyone can do.
I have had some pretty good farriers try and teach me how to trim over the years, I cant do it, at least not well enough to satisfy myself on my horses.
Get someone who knows what they are doing,and you will have a much healthier and happier horse.
On another note tho, it is YOUR responsibility to have a horse that will let his feet be picked up and worked on. This isnt hard to teach, it just takes time and consistency.
You are paying your farrier to trim, not to train, so dont expect your horse to learn it from them. Just as you teach your dog not to bite or jump on people, you need to teach your horse to le this feet be handled and worked.
This has importance beyond his feet.. what if he had a deep cut on the pastern or hoof?or had a leg tangled in barbed wire?There are many times it is not a good idea to dope a horse up, but you need to be able to work his feet.
Sorry if I sound like I am lecturing, but this is an important part of your horses life and can be a dangerous and even deadly problem if not corrected.
I can suggest some videos and books that can show you how to work with your horse safely to teach this, let me know if you need them...
CD Reynolds
SNCO Sheriffs Mounted Patrol( retired)
I agree with what everyone above has said about this guy who tryed to shoe your horse and teh importance of a good , knowledgable farrier.
I consider myself a pretty good hand with a horse, and years ago learned that trimming and shoeing is NOT something everyone can do.
I have had some pretty good farriers try and teach me how to trim over the years, I cant do it, at least not well enough to satisfy myself on my horses.
Get someone who knows what they are doing,and you will have a much healthier and happier horse.
On another note tho, it is YOUR responsibility to have a horse that will let his feet be picked up and worked on. This isnt hard to teach, it just takes time and consistency.
You are paying your farrier to trim, not to train, so dont expect your horse to learn it from them. Just as you teach your dog not to bite or jump on people, you need to teach your horse to le this feet be handled and worked.
This has importance beyond his feet.. what if he had a deep cut on the pastern or hoof?or had a leg tangled in barbed wire?There are many times it is not a good idea to dope a horse up, but you need to be able to work his feet.
Sorry if I sound like I am lecturing, but this is an important part of your horses life and can be a dangerous and even deadly problem if not corrected.
I can suggest some videos and books that can show you how to work with your horse safely to teach this, let me know if you need them...
CD Reynolds
SNCO Sheriffs Mounted Patrol( retired)
Last edited by Chrisreyn; 07-08-2007 at 12:41 AM. Reason: because I caint spell nuttin rite
07-08-2007, 05:51 AM
#12
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I am going to buck the trend and stick up for the poor guy that tried to shoe the ignorant horse.I have done my share of farrier work, getting to work with spoiled pets and outlaws.
There are quite a few horses that are going to pitch a fit, I don't care how many schools and certifications the farrier has.
Usually, the worst ones are otherwise gentle as lambs, so long as everything is going their way.
I can take anyone claiming to be a farrier to no less than a dozen horses, in less than ten miles from here, that if they can get a set of shoes on them, and the shoes be on good enough to make a twenty-mile trail-ride, and have the shoes on the horse in less than half-a-day, I would have to see it, before I would believe it.
There are some horses that simply are not going to let themselves be shod, at least not without a good set of stocks. (Which is cheating, in my way of looking at it.)
I have had, and seen it happen to others, horses roll over on their backs and kick at me, if they couldn't get at me no other way.
Some will just go limp and drop out from under you, and lay down and sull, like an old Jersey cow.
It is easy to point blame at some poor guy, when he was there and you weren't.
07-08-2007, 07:47 AM
#13
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I have been shoeing horses since 1989, I took the time to go to farrier's school and learn to do them right. I am a certified Master Journeyman Farrier.
I had enough of the 'cowboy shoers' messing up my horses feet and giving them a bad attitude about having their feet trimmed, so I decided to go to school and learn to do it myself. That fellow did you NO favors, he has now taught your horse how to misbehave. When a horse does not like someone or does not trust them, that is a good reason NOT to use that person.
Whose blood was drawn? If it was the horses, and from the foot - you could have some serious stuff develope. If he 'quicked nailed' your horses foot, it could cause lameness/infection.
As the saying goes - no foot - no horse. Many unqualified people cause the NO HORSE situation. Get a good farrier, a certified journeyman. You will probably pay a little more for a quality shoeing job but less in vet bills, let alone the fact that you can't use a lame horse.
I shoe the front feet of my horses and just trim the rear feet. I use a shoe with a little traction but mostly a wide shoe that offers some protection from the rocks and gravel, I also clip the shoe at 2 points onto the toe. 85% of your horses traveling power comes off/out of the front end. The back basically is a steering mechanism. The dynamics of the hoof wall on the rear feet is what gives turning and stability, shoeing or 'casting' the foot decreases the dynamics. As others have pointed out, the angle is of significant importance, besides the usual interference problems that bad angles can cause, a bad angle or low angle can contribute to navicular disease. Navicular dissease will totally disable the horse. Over time the low angle will cause a degeneration of the foot, lameness that is irreversable.
We had a lot of what I call 'Navicular Neal's' shoeing horses in the 80's, that one disease that is caused primarily by bad shoeing and trimming IS/WAS my impetus to learn and do my horses right.
CD
I had enough of the 'cowboy shoers' messing up my horses feet and giving them a bad attitude about having their feet trimmed, so I decided to go to school and learn to do it myself. That fellow did you NO favors, he has now taught your horse how to misbehave. When a horse does not like someone or does not trust them, that is a good reason NOT to use that person.
Whose blood was drawn? If it was the horses, and from the foot - you could have some serious stuff develope. If he 'quicked nailed' your horses foot, it could cause lameness/infection.
As the saying goes - no foot - no horse. Many unqualified people cause the NO HORSE situation. Get a good farrier, a certified journeyman. You will probably pay a little more for a quality shoeing job but less in vet bills, let alone the fact that you can't use a lame horse.
I shoe the front feet of my horses and just trim the rear feet. I use a shoe with a little traction but mostly a wide shoe that offers some protection from the rocks and gravel, I also clip the shoe at 2 points onto the toe. 85% of your horses traveling power comes off/out of the front end. The back basically is a steering mechanism. The dynamics of the hoof wall on the rear feet is what gives turning and stability, shoeing or 'casting' the foot decreases the dynamics. As others have pointed out, the angle is of significant importance, besides the usual interference problems that bad angles can cause, a bad angle or low angle can contribute to navicular disease. Navicular dissease will totally disable the horse. Over time the low angle will cause a degeneration of the foot, lameness that is irreversable.
We had a lot of what I call 'Navicular Neal's' shoeing horses in the 80's, that one disease that is caused primarily by bad shoeing and trimming IS/WAS my impetus to learn and do my horses right.
CD
07-08-2007, 08:59 AM
#14
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Kinda works the same way with saddles on this deal, but I'm not going into that. I'll defend both sides on this deal (I'd never make a good lawyer), the would be farrier might be a decent horseman, but between a pain in the butt horse and a bad day already even good horsemen look like they've only been around a horse a few times, it takes a great horseman and farrier to look like he knows what he's doing no matter what gets in his way. But saying that, that is if he was a decent horseman to start with it should have gone smoother.
07-08-2007, 12:42 PM
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"It is easy to point blame at some poor guy, when he was there and you weren't."
I've only got one thing to say to this, and don't take this the wrong way, just my point of view here.
If this horse was to much for HIM to handle, It is His responsibility to say "I can't handle it." He was The "horse expert", not me, I know nothing about shoeing horses, which is why he was there in the first place. I am paying him for a job which I expect to get done, and done right.
I'm a 3rd gen engraver, been lettering stones my whole life, taught by my grandfather. If someone walks into my shop and wants something done that I know can't be, It is MY RESPONSIBILITY to say "nope, sorry can't be done."
And if i say "DDDDRRRRRR....ok" , well then, I got nobody to blame but myself
I've either got to go back on my word or kill myself trying to pull a miracle outta my u-know-what. Either way, its not the customers fault, that monkey is on my back.
I view the farrier busness (or any) the same way, He knows more about "outlaw horses" than i ever will, Thats why I called him. And if I have to become an expert on shoeing horses to get ONE horse shoed. Than something is wrong in the farrier busness . I don't expect my customers to be stone experts when they walk in, thats my job, thats what i get paid to do.
Hey Chisreyn,
I don't think your lecturing at all, and i agree I need to get this horse trained to work with for his own safety. any info on books and videos are most welcome.
end rant
I've only got one thing to say to this, and don't take this the wrong way, just my point of view here.
If this horse was to much for HIM to handle, It is His responsibility to say "I can't handle it." He was The "horse expert", not me, I know nothing about shoeing horses, which is why he was there in the first place. I am paying him for a job which I expect to get done, and done right.
I'm a 3rd gen engraver, been lettering stones my whole life, taught by my grandfather. If someone walks into my shop and wants something done that I know can't be, It is MY RESPONSIBILITY to say "nope, sorry can't be done."
And if i say "DDDDRRRRRR....ok" , well then, I got nobody to blame but myself
I've either got to go back on my word or kill myself trying to pull a miracle outta my u-know-what. Either way, its not the customers fault, that monkey is on my back.
I view the farrier busness (or any) the same way, He knows more about "outlaw horses" than i ever will, Thats why I called him. And if I have to become an expert on shoeing horses to get ONE horse shoed. Than something is wrong in the farrier busness . I don't expect my customers to be stone experts when they walk in, thats my job, thats what i get paid to do.
Hey Chisreyn,
I don't think your lecturing at all, and i agree I need to get this horse trained to work with for his own safety. any info on books and videos are most welcome.
end rant