I'm in the process of setting up my truck with some recovery gear. I was looking into getting a winch like the warn 16.5ti. 8.25ton winch seems nice. So I figure I'll use 1" shackels rated at 8.5ton WLL. As I start to look around for tree straps, ****** blocks and then take a closer look at the winch lines. There is just about no safty factor built into any "off road recovery" equipment. For instance that 16500 pound max pull winch, the cheap 7/16 wire they use has a break strength of 17600 pounds. Zero safty factor there. And there 33000 pound ****** block. Thats only a 12000 pound WLL block with a break strength of 33000. Again no safty. Same with tow straps and everything else. Alot of tow straps give the web strength too not even the break stright witch is lower. Now granted my tow straps and shackels I use are rated for vertical rigging and have a 5x safty factor. Thats really not nessisary. Horizontal is what 3x? I'd even consider 2x safty factor. Is this why there are so many accidents when trying to move stuck vehicals? Has anyone else run into this or thought about this? or is it just me.

 

I'm an avid wheeler, have a 9.5Ti on my Jeep. I think the problem is more with people using this equipment improperly. For instance, I hate wire line, think it is unsafe. Synthetic line, 5/8 is much much much stronger and safer.You hear of accidents when people are stupid with wiches, i.e., using them when they aren't needed, not draping a blanket or coat over the line, etc. As far as recovery straps and tree savers, most 3" wide straps are plenty strong. I see many people using chains or a tow strap, not a recovery strap(remember recover straps use kinetic energy to pull out the vehicle, they stretch and use the rebound to yank the vehicle free). In our club, we rarely ever have an accident. We often do winching and recovery 101 trips, just so everyone knows what they are doing.

Like I said, I think a lot of it is user error and using improper equipment.

 

i think for the most part off road recovery gear is made with the assumption that the person using it won't get near the upper limits of the rating. for instance if you're using a warn 16.5 to recover a ctd (which is probably the heaviest vehicle you're likely to encounter on a trail) you're winching a 7000-8000 lb. vehicle so you're only using half of the winch's max pulling power. i know that does'nt like a good way to market and rate recovery gear but i think that could be their thinking.

 

My problem is lets say my truck is 7000pounds. But its burried in the mud. How much force am I really pulling? I know the winch being a TI will shut down when it over heats and that "should" be at around the 16000 pound mark. But what if it was nearing that point and sudently the truck sliped sideways or something a little and shock loaded the line?

I know recovery straps stretch up to like 20% and use the kenetic energy to help pull you out. Its pretty neat. I however use vertical rigging straps because if I cant slowly put tension on the line then pull you out. I'm not going to do it. I think shock loading things is just a good way to break something.

jbjarko-
How do you like that synthetic line? I was looking at those but being synthetic wont it absorb mostier and be useless when frozen? Plus isnt it a bit more vulernable to abrasion and tearing?

 

Can't answer your question, but have some advice.

Use the synthetic rope as some previous person stated.
Don't go 4-wheeling alone, a recovery strap will work most of the time with another vehicle to ****** you out.

Don't rely on a winch to recover your vehicle. I've had my Jeep buried and two winches couldn't recover. It took over 3 Jeeps to pull my Jeep out.

Mind you my Jeep probably weighs 1/2 of what a 3/4 Diesel weighs.

Since you have a pickup, I'd advise some recovery boards also.
Basically those are homemade.

After you do this (get stuck a few times), you get wiser.

If you don't belong to a local 4x4 club, I would recommend finding one in your area. They can give some pointers on how to properly recover a vehicle.

 

Moved it over to the 4x4 forum for ya.

I don't know why they rate them low either. In my line of work I get to do tower climbing (antennas and cabling), and all of our equipment is rated for about 3-5 times the working static load. That includes the harness, and the working lines/lanyards.

 

I like the synthetic line. Most of my buddies that I run with use it. I live in the Valley of the Sun, Phoenix area, so Im not too sure about the cold. Might google it or check the various 4x4 forums. Regarding tearing, the stuff is pretty dense. I have rubbed it against a few rocks, but just be mindful of where your line is. You obviously don't want it crossing a jagged edge or something.

 

What I love to do is go wheel in the snow. I havnt gotton stuck or close to it yet. But my fear is this year I now have 39" michelin XL's and a front ARB so if I get stuck its going to be really stuck and I dont know that my friend (the only guy who ever wants to go out with me) and his 83 1/2 ton chevy will be able to do any good getting me out. I was hopeing a winch would help but not if its going to be a danger.

 

yes there is a danger factor when using any recovery equipment, that cant be avoided.

the big thing is to use it wisely. when using a winch always put a blanket, jacket, floor mat, or a Warn weight blanket, over the line.

same for using a recovery strap, is also a good idea.

also, NEVER attach 2 or more straps together. NEVER use a strap that has metal hooks on the end, they are designed for FLAT TOWING ONLY.

the main safety feature of any off road equipment is the person knowing how to use it correctly.

 

I was looking around and it looks like extra improved plow steel cable in 7/16 isnt to badly priced. That should handel the loads I want with a pretty good safty factor built in. Does anyone know what kind of cable I need? 6x19 or 6x37? and if I need special ends?
thanks

 

another thing you can do is not run a single line pull, but use a ****** block to increase the pulling power...twice as slow, but stronger. And double back straps....2x the rated strength. And everything stated above. This is what I do anyway, and it works well.

 

Captain The way cable labled the 6x19 or 6x36 means there are 6 bundles with 19 strans or 36 strans thats what the # stand for. The 6x19 will have fewer but larger strans and is resistant to abrasion but is stiff. The 6x36 has smaller and smaller strans and is less resistant to abrasion but is more flexable. so it depinds on what you are doing.

Everyone else just use your head and you will be fine.

 

thank you. I apprciate the info but am aware of cable stranding. I just wasnt sure what was required for a winch. I'd go 6x19 but it may be to stiff to roll around the drum.

The other thing is are the warn drums grooved? or smooth? if there smooth I could run 1/2" right?

 

this is how we recovered my diesel. the yellow jeep winching (hood up for safety) through a sheave, or ****** block, hooked to the 4 runner on the hill, the 4 runner is strapped to that FJ40 and it was still dragging the yellow jeep. and I wasn't even stuck in mud, just centered my diffs. the guy wasn't standing where he is now by the yellow jeep, he was sitting inside while winching.


heres a shot of it stuck

 

LancsD, that looks like it might've scratched the truck a little bit! Ouch. Well, in a case like this I think a winch like this is needed.
I also think that going after highest rated equipment is not necessarily the right thing to do. It gets very expensive, and you can't run a huge electric winch very long (or even long enough), and if you have a 17,000# capacity winch/cable combination, and use a ****** block, that is 34,000# of pull. That will either pull your truck out or pull it apart.
As far as the reasons for accidents, I think it is because people are usually not very well prepared or experienced in recovery operations, they just don't do it very often. And the loads on equipment are extreme, so human error compounded with extreme loads = something breaks under high tension = accident.
-P