See New Lift Pump Lasted 3 Miles Topic

I have some fuel system problems beyond the lift pump. The original pump I was told was draining fuel back into the tank making it hard to start especially in my inclined driveway, no codes ever showed up. I got my truck this afternoon after having 2 lift pumps put in it. The 1st replacement went out in a blaze of white smoke and sputtering after 3 miles and gave the codes indicating failure. I get home today after 2nd replacement of the lift pump and park in driveway for 25 minutes. I went out to try to start but cranks and cranks untill I pump the throttle and it finally stumbled to life after 3 trys. This was the initial symptom I went to the dealer for in the first place. Again no codes. This is really starting to upset me. Any additional thoughts on what to check. Dealer sure doesn't have a clue.

 

When you changed your pumps there is a possibilty that air got into the lines. That has been known to cuase hard starts.

 

Any chance the check valve on the injector pump is sticking open, letting the injector pump drain into the return line? Or a leaking return line?

Any fuel leaks on the lines between the injector pump and the tank? Anywhere that air could get into the system allowing the lines to empty.

Do you have a fuel pressure gauge that you could use to check the performance of the lift pump? I know that there have been reports of a bad lift pump right out of the box....but I'd hate to think your luck is bad enough to get two in a row.

 

The hard starting problem brought me to the dealer in the first place. After replacing the pumps it is documented on the paperwork that the injectors were bled. Is there somewhere else air could be getting in without fuel leaking out? After the truck does run shouldn't the air be gone, wouldn't it be a one time thing unless pressure is lost after shutting the engine down? Are there check valves in the fuel system?

 

Aggie,

We must have posted at the same time.

How would I go about checking a leaking return line and check valve on the pump? There are no visible leaks leaving fuel on the ground. I don't have a fuel pressure guage, but 2 bad ones right out of the box??? If that were true I better not cross the street tomorrow!

 

The best way, IMO, to find an air leak is to pressurize the system from the filler neck. Use a 12v compressor and a rag to block the ilet. Have someone listen along the fuel lines.

 

Smokee,

I will try that. If it's a check valve though I shouldn't hear anything, right?

Don't worry I have decided not to burn this thing down, it's become a challenge now, and will give me the opportunity to learn more about my truck. What really ticks me off is when I asked the dealer yestarday when I picked my truck up, if putting guages on it would void the warranty he said, "If you touch anything I won't honor it." Like only they are good enough to work on my truck. UGH!

Please keep the suggestions coming guys! Thanks!

 

You can tell that dealer to stick it where the sun don't shine. Mine tried to tell me that and after reading him the right act, I gave him a copy of the Magnunson Moss Act. Haven't heard a PEEP out of him since.

 

I had a simular type of problem. Tyr unplugging the electricla connection to the lift pump when you have this problem and see if it starts, if it does, you may be like me, in need of a new injector pump. Mine threw no codes and ran good other than when starting, mainly when engine was warm.

 

If you have access to a regulated air source (0-16psi), there is a test procedure in the service manual for the check valve.

The check valve is located on the injector pump, just forward of the banjo for the fuel inlet. You can use the regulated air supply to check the opening and closing of the valve.

As for leaks, I'd look at all the fuel lines for just small wet spot where you might have a small leak letting air in, but not dripping all the way on the ground to leave a spot.

As for getting two bad pumps, I'd hope the dealer is smart enough to check the pressure before letting you leave. But sometimes you don't know....

 

Isn't Cummins allowed to work on engine related problems???? Most of the dealer mechanics don't have the experience that the Cummins ones do. Try at least calling them and talking to one, the Jerk can't void your warranty for making a phone call and giving him the answer to what's wrong. Wouldn't that be funny

 

I have experience with this one. According to Cummins (I called about my cracked block), Dodge buys the engines from Cummins with no warranty and Dodge provides all warranty service for these engines.

That being said, I do agree with talking to the Cummins dealer to see if they can provide a clue. If you're really annoyed with the Dodge dealer, it might be worth a few dollars to have Cummins diagnose it for you, then take it to the Dodge dealer for the repairs. You might be able to yell loud enough to get the Dodge dealer to reimburse you what you paid Cummins to diagnose the problem.

Chris

 

Interesting read except for the typical dealer bashing. I'm currently working on a truck that has had similar probs as yours. His woes started when he pulled into town with his 15k trailer in tow. Shut down to get checked into the rv park and when he came back out he couldn't get the truck started. A fellow rv'er with some experience cracked the filter drain open slightly while the customer cranked the engine over. It started shortly after that. Next day it started and he brought it to me with the above info. It started ok for me a couple of times, but after parking it for a couple of hours it just cranked. Truck has an aftermarket pump on the frame and lift psi was 22 (also has an adjustable BD fuel box and pierced wire). I stopped at that time and removed the fuel line from the filter to the vp-44 and installed my test line that has clear vinyl hose. It has two loops in it and it's purpose is to be able to show any fuel drain back or air collection. It sat the rest of the day and there was no air in the line and it started ok the three times I tried. I test drove it 10 miles and let it sit overnight. Checked in the morning and it still had solid fuel in the clear line. Started just fine. Installed the original line and purged the air and started the engine. 15 minutes later the crank no start showed up again. No sign of fuel leak. Installed a different filter to vp-44 line in case of crack or some other strange occurance I couldn't find with the original line. Same results. Mind you there was no check engine light nor had the customer had any drivability probs......or at least any that he had told us. A drb check netted the dreaded p0216 code with only 14 starts. This would coincide with the time that he had his first bad experience with this truck. I called the customer and quizzed him. He said he did have a couple of occurances of "loss of power" or a sudden quick jerk before he got to town. With this new info and the code I have installed a new injection pump. I'm sure from the code, and the engine cutout that the VP was on it's way out. I'm still a bit leary of the hard start prob as I haven't experienced this scenario before relating to a failing VP. I also vacuum checked the head and it held just fine so that eliminated any of the cross over tube o rings or injector seals. Guess I'll find out tommorow if I won this battle. Make sure you let us know what is found with your truck. Even us lowly techs are here to learn a thing or two.

 

JBODY,
Sounds like you backed that vp into a corner!!

Be sure and let us know if that was the fix. If so, it would sure help a lot of guys out with hard to start problems.
Thanks.

 

Boy I am glad for all the info. Looks like I have some work to do. Sorry I missed all of this I was flat on my back yestarday with a nasty cold.

When the 1st new lift pump went out I got theses codes 1693, 0230 and 0216.
0230-Transfer pump out of range, 0216 Fuel pump failure, I couldn't find the 1693.

Do you think my injection pump took a digger since it threw the 0216 code or was that a result of the lift pump failing?

J Body I hate to bash anyone, but if they all took the same diagnostic approach as you there would be no need. All of the dealers I have been to take the replace parts till it goes away aproach to solving problems. My grandpa was the head mechanic at Galles Cheverolet in Albuquerque, NM for 30 years (Sbishop, my grandpa is Choctaw, he ran away from OK when he was 13, maybe we are related !). Now cars were a lot easier to work on back then but he could fix any problem with nothing, he didn't even need bailing wire. I understand they are under pressure to get cars out the door but I bet a lot of them are repeats. I was told by the mechanic who replaced the first lift pump that he couldn't get to mine one day because there was a vehicle in there for the 6th time, same problem and they were going to get sued if they couldn't fix it. Sorry for the digression.

Thanks again all.

I am going to try and work on it this weekend if the weather holds! Will keep you posted.