What is so great about FASS ???
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
"Does Walbro make a 30psi, 100gph pump? Seems like that would be ideal."
OK, people, work with me here. I've got a few points to make in case they've been missed prior to this.
1) Walbros run at whatever pressure you set the regulator to. And you have to use a regulator because the EFI Walbros are capable of damaging things with their pressures. Unlike some of the other pumps that get run on the Dodge/Cummins trucks. They are a different class/type of lift pump than what most people are used to running.
2) It is an advantage that the Walbros and other EFI pumps are CAPABLE of running at higher pressures because that means they were designed to do such and when we run them at 20-30 PSI, they are loafing. We wouldn't really want to run a 30 PSI Walbro, even if it existed, because it would be working near 100% of its load.
3) The average Cummins engine needs 20 something GPH and the mod'd ones maybe 40 GPH. The really mod'd ones might need 60 GPH. But I have yet to see any Cummins engine that needs 100 GPH.
We all understand this, right ?
OK, people, work with me here. I've got a few points to make in case they've been missed prior to this.
1) Walbros run at whatever pressure you set the regulator to. And you have to use a regulator because the EFI Walbros are capable of damaging things with their pressures. Unlike some of the other pumps that get run on the Dodge/Cummins trucks. They are a different class/type of lift pump than what most people are used to running.
2) It is an advantage that the Walbros and other EFI pumps are CAPABLE of running at higher pressures because that means they were designed to do such and when we run them at 20-30 PSI, they are loafing. We wouldn't really want to run a 30 PSI Walbro, even if it existed, because it would be working near 100% of its load.
3) The average Cummins engine needs 20 something GPH and the mod'd ones maybe 40 GPH. The really mod'd ones might need 60 GPH. But I have yet to see any Cummins engine that needs 100 GPH.
We all understand this, right ?
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Hallejuiah ! Someone stepped up and answered this question well. Good job people.
It would have been nice to see a comment on the 100GPH, though. I don't know if people are believing that yet. Maybe next week.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...=146911&page=4
=================================================
using a pump that is only capable of putting out 30 psi puts you back to "being near the limit of the pump".
the reason for using a 100 psi CAPABLE pump, and not running it at that pressure, because you use a pressure regulator with it, is to create a level of security such that you are never anywhere NEAR the limits of the pump. this is definate over-kill and should equate to a much longer life at the lower pressure.
would you rather have a cummins pulling your truck or a v-6 gas engine? this is a relative comparison.
if you still desire a 30 psi max pump, there are plenty of pumps that are in that range. remember though that if you plan to run without a pressure relief, you WILL be running at the limit of the pump frequently.
=================================================
And yet is still continues elsewhere.
http://dieselram.com/cgi-bin/ultimat...c;f=2;t=003869
It would have been nice to see a comment on the 100GPH, though. I don't know if people are believing that yet. Maybe next week.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...=146911&page=4
=================================================
using a pump that is only capable of putting out 30 psi puts you back to "being near the limit of the pump".
the reason for using a 100 psi CAPABLE pump, and not running it at that pressure, because you use a pressure regulator with it, is to create a level of security such that you are never anywhere NEAR the limits of the pump. this is definate over-kill and should equate to a much longer life at the lower pressure.
would you rather have a cummins pulling your truck or a v-6 gas engine? this is a relative comparison.
if you still desire a 30 psi max pump, there are plenty of pumps that are in that range. remember though that if you plan to run without a pressure relief, you WILL be running at the limit of the pump frequently.
=================================================
And yet is still continues elsewhere.
http://dieselram.com/cgi-bin/ultimat...c;f=2;t=003869
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
From http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbt...5&o=31&fpart=1
<I'm adding line breaks to make it easier to read>
<I'm adding line breaks to make it easier to read>
very interesting article in issue 40 and 44 of the tdr mag,that will better explain the common rail fuel system.the article states that the common rail will not experience inj pump failure should the lift pump fail.
it also states that the lift pump acts as a way for inj pump to hold its prime,and of course as a means to supply fuel,apparently when the lift pump goes bad the inj pump will drain back enough to create a hard or no start condition.again it states that the european version of the common rail has no lift pump ,that the inj pump alone can supply itself with enough fuel[it's a gear driven time design],provideing it is not ran out of fuel,or allowed to loose its prime.
my guess is they use some kind of check vale in there fuel system.if you have ever run a diesel engine out of fuel,and there is no supply [lift] pump there to resupply the injector pump with fuel,you would be looking at a engine thats a nightmare to crank,i wouldnt think any modern pickup would be built this way,therefore they use a lift pump.
one of my dozers does not have a lift pump,and relies solely on gravity to supply the inj pump with fuel,run it out and your down a while...
it also states that the lift pump acts as a way for inj pump to hold its prime,and of course as a means to supply fuel,apparently when the lift pump goes bad the inj pump will drain back enough to create a hard or no start condition.again it states that the european version of the common rail has no lift pump ,that the inj pump alone can supply itself with enough fuel[it's a gear driven time design],provideing it is not ran out of fuel,or allowed to loose its prime.
my guess is they use some kind of check vale in there fuel system.if you have ever run a diesel engine out of fuel,and there is no supply [lift] pump there to resupply the injector pump with fuel,you would be looking at a engine thats a nightmare to crank,i wouldnt think any modern pickup would be built this way,therefore they use a lift pump.
one of my dozers does not have a lift pump,and relies solely on gravity to supply the inj pump with fuel,run it out and your down a while...
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,543
Likes: 4
From: Tomball, Texas
That's how the Duramax CP3 is setup. No lift pump. Does have larger fuel lines and a bleeder screw on the fuel filter. LB7 and the LLY version at least. I think the new 2006 LBZ version does have a lift pump.
MikeyB
MikeyB
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,543
Likes: 4
From: Tomball, Texas
Originally Posted by bmallen
John P,
Does it matter if those relays are 40 amp and the Wahlbro requires a 20amp fused circuit?
Does it matter if those relays are 40 amp and the Wahlbro requires a 20amp fused circuit?
MikeyB
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,241
Likes: 1
From: NW Indiana
MikeyB, I've never put an amprobe on the Walbro to see what it draws but my guess is 8-10amps is at full pressure pumping. We obviously won't be running this thing at 60psi. So it's just an educated guess that it'd draw less current that what you quoted.
Speaking of motors and current draw, I remember using amprobes while installing motors driving belt systems on airhandlers and such. There is a range of amp draw that is most benefitial for electrical motors. And running a motor with "no load" was almost as bad as overloading. I hope we don't run into this type of situation with these higher pressure pumps. On second thought, there will be some load, obviously, just much less than maximum. Forget what I just said....
Speaking of motors and current draw, I remember using amprobes while installing motors driving belt systems on airhandlers and such. There is a range of amp draw that is most benefitial for electrical motors. And running a motor with "no load" was almost as bad as overloading. I hope we don't run into this type of situation with these higher pressure pumps. On second thought, there will be some load, obviously, just much less than maximum. Forget what I just said....
Administrator
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,311
Likes: 52
From: Holly Ridge, N.C.
bmallen:
Sorry for not being on here when you asked your question about the 40 amp relays.
But, it looks like the other members were able to help you out, so that is the important thing. My thanks to DTR Members "trik396" and "MickeyB" for helping this guy out! FWIW, I have mine set-up with a 20 amp fuse and have had no problems with that.
Take care.
-------
John_P
Sorry for not being on here when you asked your question about the 40 amp relays.
But, it looks like the other members were able to help you out, so that is the important thing. My thanks to DTR Members "trik396" and "MickeyB" for helping this guy out! FWIW, I have mine set-up with a 20 amp fuse and have had no problems with that.Take care.
-------
John_P
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,543
Likes: 4
From: Tomball, Texas
Originally Posted by trik396
MikeyB, I've never put an amprobe on the Walbro to see what it draws but my guess is 8-10amps is at full pressure pumping. We obviously won't be running this thing at 60psi. So it's just an educated guess that it'd draw less current that what you quoted.
Speaking of motors and current draw, I remember using amprobes while installing motors driving belt systems on airhandlers and such. There is a range of amp draw that is most benefitial for electrical motors. And running a motor with "no load" was almost as bad as overloading. I hope we don't run into this type of situation with these higher pressure pumps. On second thought, there will be some load, obviously, just much less than maximum. Forget what I just said....
Speaking of motors and current draw, I remember using amprobes while installing motors driving belt systems on airhandlers and such. There is a range of amp draw that is most benefitial for electrical motors. And running a motor with "no load" was almost as bad as overloading. I hope we don't run into this type of situation with these higher pressure pumps. On second thought, there will be some load, obviously, just much less than maximum. Forget what I just said....
MikeyB
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
From: TN
Originally Posted by streetsmoker
What type of relay do I need and where does it get installed. Please help, as I have allready ordered everything and it goes in the shop in a few days when the stuff gets here.
Just to answer your question simply, this is how I wired my dads VP44 pump.
Using a 40 amp Bosch style relay:
pin 85 = tigger ( stock wire from the truck )
pin 86 = ground
pin 87 = fused 12v ign hot input
pin 30 = output to new pump
Hope that helps.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Ok S.D. after reading and reading all of the info on the walbro conversion I am finaly going to do it. No reason to go through all of the bs with getting a new lp installed, and not doing it the right way. 
I don't seem to have any problems with mine now but don't want to either. I have ordered a new walbro pump, the tapped banjo bolts and a fass adapter from rip. I can get all the rest here, the one and only thing that really has me worried about the whole thing is the way I am going to power the new pump. I have not read or I missed sombody doing this on a 04. Can I just cut the wires on the old lp and extented it to the walbro and all is good? I really don't know any thing about relays and how they work, so if that is needed, might need to do baby steps with me so I can understand. Any help or comments with heads up from all who have done this would be great. Thanks "D"
I don't seem to have any problems with mine now but don't want to either. I have ordered a new walbro pump, the tapped banjo bolts and a fass adapter from rip. I can get all the rest here, the one and only thing that really has me worried about the whole thing is the way I am going to power the new pump. I have not read or I missed sombody doing this on a 04. Can I just cut the wires on the old lp and extented it to the walbro and all is good? I really don't know any thing about relays and how they work, so if that is needed, might need to do baby steps with me so I can understand. Any help or comments with heads up from all who have done this would be great. Thanks "D"
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 470
Likes: 3
From: Germany
Originally Posted by Stump
Ok S.D. after reading and reading all of the info on the walbro conversion I am finaly going to do it. No reason to go through all of the bs with getting a new lp installed, and not doing it the right way. I don't seem to have any problems with mine now but don't want to either. I have ordered a new walbro pump, the tapped banjo bolts and a fass adapter from rip. I can get all the rest here, the one and only thing that really has me worried about the whole thing is the way I am going to power the new pump. I have not read or I missed sombody doing this on a 04. Can I just cut the wires on the old lp and extented it to the walbro and all is good? I really don't know any thing about relays and how they work, so if that is needed, might need to do baby steps with me so I can understand. Any help or comments with heads up from all who have done this would be great. Thanks "D"
I don't seem to have any problems with mine now but don't want to either. I have ordered a new walbro pump, the tapped banjo bolts and a fass adapter from rip. I can get all the rest here, the one and only thing that really has me worried about the whole thing is the way I am going to power the new pump. I have not read or I missed sombody doing this on a 04. Can I just cut the wires on the old lp and extented it to the walbro and all is good? I really don't know any thing about relays and how they work, so if that is needed, might need to do baby steps with me so I can understand. Any help or comments with heads up from all who have done this would be great. Thanks "D"