Transmission fluid as fuel?
07-20-2006, 06:29 PM
#1
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Transmission fluid as fuel?
Hi all,
I was telling a buddy of mine about my experiences running waste motor oil as a fuel, and he asked me whether transmission fluid would work as a fuel, mixed with ordinary diesel. I told him I would check around and try to find out.
He has a 2000 model 24v. I'm thinking that might work out really well, because people routinely add trans fluid to fuel to help lubricate the pump. The question to me is whether or not there are things in the trans fluid that would build up a bunch of deposits.
He works on transmissions all the time at the local dodge dealer, so he has access to plenty of fluid. He mentioned that he could separate fluid into two different barrels as he gets it out of transmissions-burned and not burned.
I'm trying to figure out what kind of percentage he could get away with using.
If trans fluid would be unsuitable, is there any problem with running filtered used engine oil through a vp44 like I'm doing with my p pump?
I was telling a buddy of mine about my experiences running waste motor oil as a fuel, and he asked me whether transmission fluid would work as a fuel, mixed with ordinary diesel. I told him I would check around and try to find out.
He has a 2000 model 24v. I'm thinking that might work out really well, because people routinely add trans fluid to fuel to help lubricate the pump. The question to me is whether or not there are things in the trans fluid that would build up a bunch of deposits.
He works on transmissions all the time at the local dodge dealer, so he has access to plenty of fluid. He mentioned that he could separate fluid into two different barrels as he gets it out of transmissions-burned and not burned.
I'm trying to figure out what kind of percentage he could get away with using.
If trans fluid would be unsuitable, is there any problem with running filtered used engine oil through a vp44 like I'm doing with my p pump?
07-20-2006, 07:22 PM
#2
I think I can... I think...
I'm under the understanding that tranny fluid will destroy the Injection pump.
Originally Posted by Dr. Evil
The friction modifiers in atf would not be good for your injector pump. The days of dumping ATF in the tank are long gone. Years ago, I believe ATF was completely different and Injector pumps didnt have the close tolerances they have nowadays.
07-20-2006, 08:53 PM
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ATF and motor oil are NOT meant to burn! 2-stroke oil is meant to lube and then burn. If you dont wanna use that then use some of the other good aditives, like PS or Howes or whatever. I would really like to see the insides of the combustion chambers on engines that use atf or motor oils. I am sure that the additives in these two have to make a mess of injectors and valve guides and on the top of the pistons.
Sorry I dont mean to rant but I just dont get how some people dont get it. Wait did that make sense??
Sorry I dont mean to rant but I just dont get how some people dont get it. Wait did that make sense??
07-20-2006, 08:56 PM
#6
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I dunno how they look, but I may be removing my 370's and putting 215's back in to calm down the smoke some. I'll be able to get an idea on deposits in my engine from the waste oil if I do that. I can say that with around 800 miles of roughly 80% waste oil, it's running fine.
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07-20-2006, 08:59 PM
#8
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Several reasons not to run it :
1. ATF (any flavor) is red in color. It also turns your fuel red. It would be hard to explain red fuel if you ever get dipped. The sample still has to go to the lab for testing for the chemical tracer that dyed fuel contains, but won't help with the intitial headache of the guys dipping your tank in the first place.
2. ATF also has friction modifiers in it meant for clutch paks in trannies, not in injection pumps with tight tolerances.
3. This kinda falls under "right tool for the right job". There are much better and cheaper additives to put in the tank designed for diesel engines.
And number 4. This is a quote from another forum. The guy that posted this works in the petrochem industry.
1. ATF (any flavor) is red in color. It also turns your fuel red. It would be hard to explain red fuel if you ever get dipped. The sample still has to go to the lab for testing for the chemical tracer that dyed fuel contains, but won't help with the intitial headache of the guys dipping your tank in the first place.
2. ATF also has friction modifiers in it meant for clutch paks in trannies, not in injection pumps with tight tolerances.
3. This kinda falls under "right tool for the right job". There are much better and cheaper additives to put in the tank designed for diesel engines.
And number 4. This is a quote from another forum. The guy that posted this works in the petrochem industry.
Originally Posted by Flash
How about we look at the chemistry that makes up the Ford ATFs. If you are using Mercon V for your additive, it is a generally 20w mineral fluid and sometimes is a PAO basestock with some diesters. Not bad so far. Now comes the additive package with 2200-2500 ppm's sulphur and 600-800 ppm's of zinc. I don't think I would want to purposely run that much sulphur thru my engine as it will end up as sulphuric acid in the oil. And that much zinc run thru the injectors has got to eventually cause some erosion. So, lets look at Fords Type F ATF. It is a 20w mineral fluid with 12,000-13,000 ppm's of phosphorus, 3500 ppm's zinc, and about 800 ppm's barium. I can't believe this wouldn't poison a diesel engine. The acid load on the oil has to be tremendous. I would suggest using an additive that is made to do the job if you are using an additive at all.
How about we look at the chemistry that makes up the Ford ATFs. If you are using Mercon V for your additive, it is a generally 20w mineral fluid and sometimes is a PAO basestock with some diesters. Not bad so far. Now comes the additive package with 2200-2500 ppm's sulphur and 600-800 ppm's of zinc. I don't think I would want to purposely run that much sulphur thru my engine as it will end up as sulphuric acid in the oil. And that much zinc run thru the injectors has got to eventually cause some erosion. So, lets look at Fords Type F ATF. It is a 20w mineral fluid with 12,000-13,000 ppm's of phosphorus, 3500 ppm's zinc, and about 800 ppm's barium. I can't believe this wouldn't poison a diesel engine. The acid load on the oil has to be tremendous. I would suggest using an additive that is made to do the job if you are using an additive at all.
07-20-2006, 09:02 PM
#9
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Well guys, you've convinced me-I'll advise him to not do it. He's pretty sharp, and I think he'll listen. As for the oil, other than idle smoke all I can really say is the power is decreased maybe a little, mileage seems to be down a bit, and it idles a good bit quieter than it does on diesel.
07-20-2006, 09:54 PM
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My 2 cents . Friction modifiers? What I do know is that my buddy has a 98.5 24 valve and burns it by the 55 gal drum with original vp and she purrs like a kitten.
07-20-2006, 11:33 PM
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I've seen 24V trucks with well over 200K on the ticker on the factory VP pump. They are running straight diesel, no additives.
I wouldn't risk dumping who knows what in my $8000 engine unless it was specifically designed to burn in that engine.
Just my 2 cents.
I wouldn't risk dumping who knows what in my $8000 engine unless it was specifically designed to burn in that engine.
Just my 2 cents.
07-21-2006, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Forrest Nearing
with a 40gal tank, it sounds like he's putting away about $120 each time he fills up
You sir, are a Trouble Maker !!
.
07-23-2006, 08:54 PM
#15
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A lot of you guys are responding to this thread by saying something like "if you want an additive use X" or "there are better additives" etc. You are missing the point completely. The idea is to get free fuel. Free fuel, not a better additive.
If someone can produce actual documentation that shows it damages an engine I'd very much like to see it. Really, I would. Please document that waste oil, or heating oil, or tranny fluid actually does damage. We can all speculate that someone said it had something in it that sounds like it might be a problem. I can do that to, and I agree that it may be a risk. But a lot of people are running waste oil, and I've run my share too, with no ill effects.
It's not about finding a better additive. It's about whether or not certain types of waste oil will do damage to the engine. And waste oil is not for everyone. Noone is saying we should all use it. I'm not going to recommend it to others, for various reasons.
So please chime in if you have direct knowledge of damage, what the damage was and what fuel in what percentage was being used. Or about good results you may have had. Otherwise, why waste your time trying to convince others to not do what you don't want to do? Let's just see if we can learn more about what is actually going on, and what the results are.
Wetspirit
If someone can produce actual documentation that shows it damages an engine I'd very much like to see it. Really, I would. Please document that waste oil, or heating oil, or tranny fluid actually does damage. We can all speculate that someone said it had something in it that sounds like it might be a problem. I can do that to, and I agree that it may be a risk. But a lot of people are running waste oil, and I've run my share too, with no ill effects.
It's not about finding a better additive. It's about whether or not certain types of waste oil will do damage to the engine. And waste oil is not for everyone. Noone is saying we should all use it. I'm not going to recommend it to others, for various reasons.
So please chime in if you have direct knowledge of damage, what the damage was and what fuel in what percentage was being used. Or about good results you may have had. Otherwise, why waste your time trying to convince others to not do what you don't want to do? Let's just see if we can learn more about what is actually going on, and what the results are.
Wetspirit