The party is over
Jeremy Cato, today at 10:18 AM EDT

LOMMEL, Belgium; Just when we thought diesels would have a big future in Canada and the United States, along come the engineering types with a bucket of icy cold water.

At least Ford's engineering types.

Here at Ford's test track facility on the Dutch border a facility the industry calls a "proving ground"; Ford's top engineers served up an interesting take on the future of diesel engines: the party is over.

Gunnar Harmann, Ford's executive engineer in charge of compact cars such as the Focus, argues that the big advantages of diesel -- fuel efficiency and low cost of ownership; are disappearing. Advanced gasoline engines using turbocharging and direct fuel injection are about to become real competitors to diesel.

In the near future diesel engines face some big problems.

First, there is the skyrocketing cost of engineering and equipping cars with emissions control devices capable of meeting ever-stricter government standards.

By 2011, Harmann says it will cost auto makers another $1,000 or more to meet the next level of diesel emissions regulations in Europe. That's a big ticket for cars aimed at the middle class; too big to make sense, he says.

Second, the price of diesel fuel is now equal to that of petrol or gasoline in Europe. No one predicted that, he says. In fact, European governments have for years monkeyed with fuel taxes to keep diesel fuel less expensive than gasoline.

But world events; you've seen what's happening with the price of oil have taken diesel up in price. That has erased some of the appeal of diesel among consumers.

Diesel engines do get 25-40 per cent better fuel economy, but if they are too expensive; because they have been engineered and equipped to meet new emissions regulations; the fuel saving is offset by the higher up-front price. Buyers will reject them in that case.

Ford, of course, has a reason for pushing this line. Its lineup of ecoBoost gas engines with direct injection will start rolling out next year and they promise good performance with low emissions and solid fuel economy. That type of technology, the Ford types say, could prove to be a viable replacement for diesels.

 

What a bunch of Hog wash.. It costs more to produce gasoline from raw oil stock than diesel and they then pile on a bunch of emissions legislation that really doesn't make any sense. Thanks EPA and big oil for killing the Diesel engine in the small engine market.

 

This is part of it, for sure, and I cannot argue this point at all.

The other point is that this is Ford Motor Company; they like MAKING STATEMENTS and trying to sound like they know the all-inclusive truth. Ever notice how European & Japanese manufacturers rarely, if ever make blanket statements about markets, about products, and especially about themselves? Well, they don't have to. They demonstrate thier awareness in thier products, which isn't a perfect opprotunity either. But they don't talk, they listen...and they respond with product, not Statements.

 

So FORD (a maker of gasoline powered Econo-Coffins in the world marketplace) is predicting the demise of the diesel powered car?

Nope,.....can't see any conflict of interest there.......

 

Please Ford, put one of your direct injection, turbocharged gassers into your 'Superduty' trucks as a diesel replacement... I dare you.

 

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...ge_top+stories

65 mpg diesel car not coming to USA

 

Just another nail in fords Casket

 

maybe this is their way of breaking it to the ford guys that their will be no more super duty diesels after the international split is over.

 

i read an interesting article on pickuptruck.com

supposedly ford has a new engine in development code named bobcat.

From PUTC
A 5.0-liter turbo V-8 with ethanol boost could be rated at 500 horsepower and 700 pounds-feet of torque.

Article http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/new...ed-bobcat.html

Im not sold on it though a small 5.0L gas engine with that much power just seems bound to throw a rod when pulling a heavy load

 

So it is going to be a 5.0 now that goes BOOM!!!!!!

 

more ......

Ford's only official comment about ethanol boost technology comes from Dan Kapp, director, Ford powertrain research and advanced engineering. Kapp says, "EBS has the potential to be a technology that could deliver diesel-type performance at a more affordable price."



Sources say Ford's expectation is that Bobcat engines, carrying an approximately $1,100 premium, could become viable alternatives to diesel engines in full-size pickups. Diesels offer about the same fuel economy and power ratings promised in ethanol-boosted engines, but diesel hardware costs have soared since new federal emissions regulations were enacted in 2007. Diesel engines can carry up to a $5,000 premium over gasoline engines


i wonder if ford is thinking about getting rid of diesels in their superduty line up

 

The truth is diesel is in trouble and not just at Ford. In heavy trucks the 2007 regs added app. $7,000 dollars to the purchase price and the 2010 regs are expected to add even more along with a weight penalty. When the 2010 regs hit CAT will withdraw from the on-highway truck market. Compared to their total sales, trucks in the U.S. are little more than a drop in the bucket. They can no longer justify the ever growing expense of certifying engines for highway use.

Heavy manufacturers are beginning to shift to vertical integration. Engineering different manufacturers engines into a chassis along with it's individual emission needs again is too costly. Both Ford and Dodge use medium duty engines from outside vendors. They adapt these engines to their chassis unlike Chevy which has a fully integrated package.

Back in the 90's we came within a hairs breath of having a federal mandate that all heavy and medium duty trucks convert to methanol. They were just finishing a Canadian study that looked good. The feds estimated that it would 'only' cost $2,000 per heavy truck for the conversion. They knew that methanol was 1/2 as dirty as diesel. Everything looked perfect. At what was literally the last minute they learned that methanol was 1/2 as fuel efficient as diesel. The net result would have been a wash. Trucks would have been forced to burn twice as much methanol thereby producing just as many pollutants.

Also, look at the transit buses. If you live in a big city they are virtually all aternatively fueled. That is subsidized by the feds. They are looking for and proving an interim path around diesel. This will not stop until all vehicles are zero emission. Diesels days are numbered.

 

I don't think diesels days are numbered. I think maybe diesel fuels days are numbered but a diesel technology engine can run on many more sources of alternative fuels and heavier fuels than a spark ignition engine can.

 

Have you ever seen a CAT engine with the 2007 emissions ? you literally cannot see the engine block. simply put their system for emissions is an over engineered pile of scrap metal.



try to work on that

 

They seem to have less problems than the detroit cooled egr system. They had alot of bugs at first but have worked it out. That same setup is in heavy equipment now.