AlpineRAM

I do understand the position of Cummins as follows: <br>We can not endorse the use of any additive othr than our own, because we can not be shure if there ain't anybody selling a mix of dog*** and cat**** as an additive. <br>Also, my owners manual was printed before my truck was delivered. Laws have changed, therefore the fuel has changed since when they printed the manual. <br>Over here the quality norms for diesel include tests of normal and high pressure lubricity over a certain temperature range. This seems to be a result of the pressure from injection pump manufacturers. <br><br>AlpineRAM

Redleg

I can see Cummins having less interest in fuel lubricity for the pump as I'm sure (just assuming) any costs/problems with pumps would fall back to Bosch just as the engine problems fall back on Cummins when Dodge performs warranty work. From what Alpine is saying, they are handling the issue in Europe. Over here, Bosch seems to be more concerned with relocating their plants and reducing labor. They probably don't have as much influence on fuel production here either.

Floor It

Scott at J&amp;S Diesel said NO TWO STROKE OIL! I cant remember why right now but he said that was a big NO NO!<br><br> John

AlpineRAM

Well cummins will be interested in a long pump life (to a certain degree). Ya know they wanna sell engines. If the customer is satisfied the engine should die immediately, therefore optimizing profit. Hard to tell though when will the customer be satisfied with the longevity ???<br>When low sulfur fuel was coming up here, the automotive clubs sought assistance from the manufacturers because they did not want high failure rates (understandably) and the pump manufacturers kinda gave hints what was required to keep the pump happy. Since there are lots of votes to be lost if you anger the drivers or owners of vehicles the laws were passed with the lubricity tests. Simple democracy <br><br>I think that adding stuff that is not intended to go into diesel can be troublesome because the additives in the diesel and the additives in the ATF can interact in unpredictable ways, even though the base oil would be no problem at all. <br><br>AlpineRAM

Floor It

This was a more in-depth conversation after the tour, I had to pick up some stuff for Joe D,We talked about it for a bit and his opinion at that moment, after he thought about it was a BIG NO!<br><br> John

cp

An idividual recommending that additives must be used carries no more weight than another individual who says they're unnecessary.

What does Bosch say? They're the ones who should know. Cummins advises against additives in their service bulletin on fuel, but they don't mention the Bosch pump.

Does the '03 even have a pump or is it like the IHC?

KatDiesel

[quote author=cp link=board=8;threadid=14654;start=30#139370 date=1053221608]<br>Does the '03 even have a pump or is it like the IHC?<br>[/quote]<br><br>Yes they have a pump

Monty

The same fuel system and pump as a Duramax if I remember right

Monty

Like it or not, todays diesel fuel does not have the same lubricity qualities as in the past, since sulfur has a role in lubrication. Not only does this effect the lubrication qualites of the fuel, it also effects the pour point substantially. Its good to know that I am not the only one seeing more and more pump failures come in due to this. The inlines do not suffer from this as much as the rotary and vane type pumps. The inlines get some of there lubrication from motor oil. Rotarys such as the VP and VE rely soley upon the diesel fuel to lubricate and cool itself. In fact, John Deere reccommends the use of an additive at every fill up. So, why chance it? I would rather buy a 5 or 10 dollar bottle of additive and take advantage of the possible increase in mpg as well as the added performance and the peace of mind.

cp

As near as I can tell, this is contrary to what the fuel and engine manufacturers themselves are saying.

First, sulfur is not, was not, and never will be a lubricant of any sort, nor does it play any role in wax precipitation of diesel fuel. Low sulfur diesel gels at the same temperature as high sulfur. Sulfur is an undesirable tramp element contained in crude oil that serves no purpose in combustion or lubrication. It's great if you want to make matches, but that's about all. The less of it in diesel, the better except it costs more money to get rid of it than it's worth.

The areas of injection pumps lubricated by engine oil would be unaffected by any lack of lubricity in the fuel; only the pistons and their bores would suffer.

If this perceived lack of lubricity is indeed a problem, why don't the manufacturers issue TSBs to address this issue and why don't fleet owners such as Yellow Freight use them? They would be the ones to benefit the most from all the improved mileage and cost avoidance of using additives. It would be interesting to compare the cost of ownership of 100 trucks on additives to 100 trucks that weren't.

Not to mention, if lubricity is low, why don't the oil companies raise it. They could very well add the same stuff at their refinery for way less than it costs to add it by the bottle from Walmart.

Floor It

I agree Gary-KJ6Q, scott at J&amp;S diesel didnt say dont use additives, only that you should use the proper ones. <br><br> CP, Bosch sued the C.A.R.B board on pump failuers due to the earlier law that they passed on lowering the sulfur content, which the by-product is less lubricity, and bosch won! C.A.R.B had the oil companys add lubricity stuff to the fuel for the california area. When the sulfur content goes down even further I do believe the oil companys SHOULD add lubricity to the fuel to compensate.<br><br> John

AlpineRAM

cp: Why should an oil company add something to a product that would reduce their profits ? IMHO any company will produce their stuff as cheap as possible without conflicting the laws. Naturally you could mix an additive into the fuel much cheaper at the refinery. Actually almost all fuels are using additives on the base stuff to improve quality, or longevity of the fuel etc. <br>I do not know about diesel in the US or Canada, but over here there are some regulations that are quite strict. Actually our equivalent to the CARB wanted the lubricity to be kept up, as well as some additives to keep the injector tips free, because this results in cleaner running engines. <br>I think that most people wouldn't believe it if they saw a sign on the fuel island saying &quot;high lubricity fuel&quot; or the like. Hence adding the stuff yourself gives you much more satisfaction and &quot;assures&quot; you of having treated your engine right. <br><br>Maybe we could start the equivalent of a tranny war on the additives to be used and to be avoided. ;D <br><br>AlpineRAM