[quote author=induchman link=board=8;threadid=22607;start=0#msg211871 date=1069346281]
So why intro a 6.1L to compete against the H2? The H2 and the Caddy Escalade are popular status symbols. Jeeps have their niche and they pretty much control it. It also makes no sense to intro another diesel into the fray. The 5.9L is still a better engine than the Navi 6.0!
[/quote]

That's basically what I was trying to say. The jeep will pretty much sell itself regardless what type of Cummins is in it. Not to mention, like you said, Jeeps have their own niche. Who wants to take an Escalade mudding...not me. But I agree, why introduce a new engine when the 5.9L Cummins is a real workhorse to begin with. If only the average person would realize that the 5.9L Cummins is a lot more powerful than the Navi 6.0L. But this reason I guess is why they have these displacement wars.

 

[quote author=induchman link=board=8;threadid=22607;start=0#msg211871 date=1069346281]So why intro a 6.1L to compete against the H2? The H2 and the Caddy Escalade are popular status symbols. Jeeps have their niche and they pretty much control it. It also makes no sense to intro another diesel into the fray. The 5.9L is still a better engine than the Navi 6.0!
[/quote]

I was thinking of a new 6.1L in the truck application. I really don't care about Jeeps or H2's or Caddy's or whatever. The 5.9L is a better engine than the Navi 6.0L, but the 6.0L has more HP and torque and is 50 state legal. It only makes sense that Dodge would want to compete.

 

Maybe they are mistaken, mayybe they are talking about this??????

http://forums.pickuptruck.com/showfl...o=&fpart=1

 

That would make more sense.

 

[quote author=Hoss link=board=8;threadid=22607;start=15#msg211978 date=1069360135]
That would make more sense.
[/quote]

Yes it would. The Cummins in a Dodge truck is, how can I say it, underpowered? When there are TEN different horsepower and torque ratings for the same 5.9L engine. From 185/420 to 260/660. AND there's a LPG version too! If DC would put the Cummins 3.9L engine into a Durango say, they'd have that market cornered. Then competition would heat up for the other two makers.

A Hemi 6.1 is a possibility, so why re-intro the 5.7?

 

Hoss,
Even though the 6.0 Navi appears to be more powerful by numbers, one must look at the peak horsepower and torque Vs. where these numbers are achieved. The 6.0 PSD Navi reaches it's peak 325 HP at 3300 RPMs and 560 FP torque at 2000 RPS, while the 5.9 Cummins reach the peak HP of 305 @ 2900 RPMs and 555 FP torque @ 1400 (WOW) rpms. This gives the 5.9 Cummins a BIG edge over the 6.0 powersmoke and Chevys unglmax. Don't know about everyone else, but the higher torque is needed at lower RPMs when towing. Thus the reason for higher tow ratings in the Dodge. ;D ;D ;D

 

not sure id want a 3.9 cummins in a durango.......those things shake so bad you wouldnt have an interior left in the thing

 

[quote author=induchman link=board=8;threadid=22607;start=15#msg211994 date=1069362048]When there are TEN different horsepower and torque ratings for the same 5.9L engine. From 185/420 to 260/660. [/quote]

Don't forget the 305/555 that so many of us have grown so fond of.

 

[quote author=Dauntless link=board=8;threadid=22607;start=15#msg212002 date=1069363190]
Hoss,
Even though the 6.0 Navi appears to be more powerful by numbers, one must look at the peak horsepower and torque Vs. where these numbers are achieved. The 6.0 PSD Navi reaches it's peak 325 HP at 3300 RPMs and 560 FP torque at 2000 RPS, while the 5.9 Cummins reach the peak HP of 305 @ 2900 RPMs and 555 FP torque @ 1400 (WOW) rpms. This gives the 5.9 Cummins a BIG edge over the 6.0 powersmoke and Chevys unglmax. Don't know about everyone else, but the higher torque is needed at lower RPMs when towing. Thus the reason for higher tow ratings in the Dodge. ;D ;D ;D

[/quote]

I realize that, but nobody ADVERTISES that. When you watch a commercial all they say is XXX Horsepower and XXX torque. They don't mention what RPM those numbers are achieved at. Right now Ford claims to have the most powerful diesel at 325 HP and whatever their torque is. All people is here "most powerful"....they don't pay attention to the fact that the truck has to be almost at redline to get the numbers they're talking about. I was just saying it would make sense for Dodge to want to raise their HP/torque numbers so they could then say THEY have the highest numbers.

 

Didn't Ford just disabled the pilot injection on the 6.0L to correct the fuel in oil issue? If so the 6.0L "should" have less HP and torque than the HO Cummins now.

MikeyB

 

I read a year or two ago that Cummins was testing a 6.1 L version of the 5.9 on a foreign web site. I can not find the link now. I recollect the engine was a stroked version of the 5.9. The crank throw would only be increased 0.080 inches to increase the stroke from 4.72 inches to 4.88 inches and get 6.1 L.

I would guess that the 6.1 L is marketing, bigger than the Ford and according to the Durango ad, bigger is better. It would also go good marketing with the 6.1 L gasser Hemi.

From what I have seen when surfing the web, I would guess that the new tranny is a version of a DaimlerChrysler AG system already in use on Freightliner trucks. :


http://www.freightliner.com/news/pre...ail.asp?id=232

6 speed, up to 660 ft lb torque.

Go to the bottom of:

http://www.freightlinertrucks.com/tr...nsmissions.asp

and download the pdf file for the brochure on the tranny.

346 lbs, gear ratios of 6.70, 3.81, 2.29, 1.48, 1.00, 0.73 OD, and 6.29 reverse. Manual or automatic operation.


Another thing I have run across on the web is that the new 6.1 Cummins will have a variable geometry turbo they currently use on other 5.9 engines.

I am guessing that the new engine will not have exhaust gas recycle but will use a catalytic reactor. Fleetguard has contracted to be distributor for:

http://www.cleanerfuture.com/product...tecleancat.htm

Environmental Solutions expects CARB and EPA certification for the diesel particulate reactor in January 2004. This is cutting it close and Dodge might not want to take 2004.5 orders until the certification is in hand.

http://www.cleanerfuture.com/november122003.htm

The reactor looks like it is filled with a very fine wire wool that the soot particles stick to and then are burned when the exhaust temp gets over 450. Looks like a reasonable device to me (retired chemical engineer) and much better than exhaust gas recycle.

Also about a month ago, ExxonMobil announced a deal to produce a new grade of ashless diesel lubricating oil for DaimlerChrysler. The ashless diesel oil minimizes/prevents poisoning catalytic reactors.


My vote in the pool is that Dodge will advertise 330 HP with 6.1 L to one up Ford (and save some room for incremental bragging increases in the years ahead).

 

Considering Ford owns Cummins, it should come as no surprise that they're making a new 6.1L engine. First they revamped the Powerstroke, now they're working on the Cummins.

 

[quote author=Hoss link=board=8;threadid=22607;start=15#msg212276 date=1069428972]
Considering Ford owns Cummins, it should come as no surprise that they're making a new 6.1L engine. First they revamped the Powerstroke, now they're working on the Cummins.
[/quote]

Yeah, right, in your dreams!

 

Uh oh, looks like hoss caught one

 

I still feel like there is significant reason to discount new 04's and old 03's at the same time....didn't we state this a while back :.

Whatever they do, it will be advertised as bigger and better for the 04.5's thus making it difficult to move the now old 04's and 03's from the lots...bring it on....I still haven't found one here that I could drive and had what I wanted. We will have a 2nd CTD...If I have to get the "bigger and better" version, it won't hurt my feelings..or the wife's : since it will be her truck........and that's how it is.....