Once again, we've got guys coming into a thread meant to help those who want to do this Walbro pump setup.... and attacking SD for no freakin' reason. 45auto, the way you defend the FASS, I suspect you are a supplier or someone who makes $ off of it at the very least.
And I for one think the Walbro setup is much easier to install than the FASS. I've been looking into changing my fuel setup for 2years now. I never considered the FASS because of the rediculous setup and crazy price. It is not neccesary. Now you should grow up.

 

Moderators: don't lock this thread. Lets get all of this out into the open. Fuel pumps are a contentious issue these days. Feelings run high. Lets keep the debate going.

I am going to ignore the personal attacks in what Auto45 has said and answer the fuel pump related questions.

"regardless what you say, you have a vested interest in Walbro, otherwise, why this crusade???"

I have NO vested interest in the Walbro. None. My wife is in her first trimester of pregnancy and has been feeling a bit under the weather since Christmas. She sleeps. I stay nearby and occupy my time trying to help the Dodge community (which has generally treated me well) with their fuel pump issue. I wrote the original "How I fed my CP3" thread back in October and it sat quietly until Christmas Eve, when I decided to spend some time on this.

I don't work for/with any company that has anything to do with Walbro. And if you think I'm related to Walbro, then chose another EFI type pump. It doesn't make me ANY difference.

OK, now that I've stated my position lets hear yours. Do you or the dieselram website have ANY vested interest in the success of any particular fuel pump ?

"If you want to use Walbro, knock yourself out, but don't be a crybaby because others have an opinion and like or want something different than you.

I don't care what they buy. That is their business. But I don't want people THINKING the FASS is a tougher pump or that all fuel pumps are built equal or that trucks need 150 GPH. If people understand the issues and buy a FASS or a BD or whatever, that is fine by me.

It is when people blindly buy pump X thinking it does magical things that I get concerned.

Lets face something. There is no logical reason for Dodge trucks to have fuel pump issues. Ford trucks don't have fuel pump issues and the Powerstrokes are way harder to feed. So lets get to the bottom of the Dodge fuel pump issue and the first way to do that is to foster some understanding of fuel pumps. They are not all built the same. Fuel pumps are not generic. Some are built heavier than others. Some have different flow/pressure characteristics.

"I'm not going to get into this with you because you will hammer this to death and beat this dead horse long after it's buried!"

I am going to answer each and every technical question that is brought up, yes. And I invite people to bring those questions forward. If I am wrong about Walbros or something else, lets find it and change it. Lets learn all we can about fuel pumps and lets find a pump that lives on the Dodge trucks and get over this problem.

"BTW, where is the Walbro really made??? is it imported??"

I have no idea where they are made. Countries other than USA have become adept at manufacturing things. A company called TI Group owns Walbro. They build other high quality OEM components and Walbro pumps are used in OEM applications.

Where does the FASS motor come from ? Where is the delivery curve for that pump ?

 

"LOL Whats wrong with air cooled??? Guess most motorcycles today and ATV's are dead, on the side of the road."

Comparing internal combustion engines to DC motors isn't valid. The cooling function in an internal combustion engine is different than a DC motor.

DC motors have brushes and armatures and windings.

The brushes run on the armature as it turns. A certain amount of pressure is needed on the brush to keep it in contact with the armature so that it can pass current. The brushes are made of relatively soft carbon which wears away. The brushes and armature heat up due to the IR heating (current x resistance) and the friction. Running the brushes and armature in fuel means that the heat is removed better and the brushes are lubricated as they run over the armature.

The windings in a motor are insulated with a plastic like coating. If it gets too hot it melts. The windings and magnet in the Walbro run right in the fuel. They stay at the same temperature as the fuel. This keeps them cool.

"There is a regulator at the pump, it's built in, you should know, you now own one."

I don't own a FASS.

A number of people have stated that they would like to maintain 15+ PSI at their VP44. There is a pressure drop from the lift pump to the VP44. And, although we haven't talked about it yet, there is a pressure drop from the fuel tank to the lift pump. So, I have been saying that the required pressure from the lift pump is in the 20-25 PSI range to meet the VP44 requirements.

Secondly, as I've explained many times, I understand the Walbro isn't running at 60 or 80 PSI. It is, however, designed to run at those pressures. It is built to run continuously at those pressures. So when it runs at 15 or 20 PSI it is merely idling compared to what it is designed to do.

If given the choice, would you rather have a pump that is working at 100 or 150% of its designed capabilities OR would you rather have one that is working at 25% ?

 

45 Auto,

You need to grow up, last time I checked the engine block in our trucks was imported , and how is that relevant to the discussion anyways??

 

You continue to prove my point!

As I've said, such as yourself, use whatever it is you want, I could care less too. You continue to way over analyze this issue. You talk about the Walbro as if your going to be sending the Cummins into space

I don't have the ability to close any thread at Dieselram as I am NOT a moderator! Your facts aren't correct. At least the FASS comes as a complete system, no brackets and anything else has to be fabed, can't say that about the gas pumper, Walbro. Brand X is actually Walbro, Fass is known in the diesel community, but like I said, whatever floats your boat is fine with me. The FASS flows 17 PSI to the filter housing, far superior to OEM and is then regulated at the CP3, so the numbers you throw out are exaggerated.

The fuel filter on the 3rd Gen should be changed more often than what the manual states, I change mine every 5K mi. when I do my oil. The more filtration on the 3rd Gen the better. The FASS comes with water and fuel, then pass to the OEM filter, if you have the adaptor, with very very little to no Pressure drop.

By all means, one should buy what they feel comfortable with.

PS, The FASS is not a Vane pump!

 

"You continue to way over analyze this issue. You talk about the Walbro as if your going to be sending the Cummins into space."

And conversely, the Dodge Cummins community has seen more fuel pump failures than any vehicle that I've ever known. For no good reason, as far as I can tell.

What other vehicle do you know of that people would have to put 3, 4 or 5 fuel pumps in over its lifetime ? Given that history, doesn't it warrant some discussion ?

Isn't it absurd that nobody has delved into the topic of fuel pumps and done something about this issue ? Comming from the Ford community, it struck me as a very odd situation. Thus I am trying to do something about it.

"The fuel filter on the 3rd Gen should be changed more often than what the manual states, I change mine every 5K mi. when I do my oil. The more filtration on the 3rd Gen the better."

OK. My 3rd gen needs oil changes at 7.5K/15K according to the owners manual. I added a 2 micron filter downstream of my stock filter. It was a nice 2 hour project. Just some special time between me and my truck.

What makes you say it needs changing at 5K ? What sort of backpressure is on the filter at that point ?

"The FASS comes with water and fuel, then pass to the OEM filter, if you have the adaptor, with very very little to no Pressure drop."

Do you see anything wrong with utilizing the stock filter, which has a built in water detector, water separator and fuel heater ?

 

Dodge has the same problems as the rest, they all use cheap parts that don't last. After all, if it wasn't for parts replacement, there would be less jobs and less people getting rich from them. As you say, "follow the $$"


3, 4, or 5 pumps over the life of the engine?? Guess it depends on how long you own the truck, NEVER heard of that one, must be another story As you know, the Ford wouldn't last that long, this is why you made the smart choice to switch, and I'm with ya on that. You couldn't have a better marriage than what you have now, Ford/Cummins.

Everybody has delved into the LP issue, as a matter of fact, it's on every site out there. So what's your point?? You Can't do a thing about it, you don't work for the big three! This is why people such as yourself, me and many many others, do something about it on their own, They go with aftermarket, of whatever brand of choice.

I change filters because I can, it's cheap insurance, the CP3 is more sensitive than past systems, you should know that by now, your the fuel system Guru, now. As for oil, I do not believe in X-tended intervals, but that's me and makes for another discussion.

I don't get your last point, but this is why I am going to plumb my FASS to the OEM filter and housing, so I can utilize the H2o and heater, It would be silly NOT to.

 

Fords don't have fuel pump problems ! What does this have to do with Walbros, FASSes, etc ?

These LP problems are easily fixable by the truck owner. And without spending $600 on a pump system.

Geico266 has the following in his signature: ""99" *5th Lift pump, 185K on Original VP44 & Auto tranny."

So don't accuse me of making up any "stories". There are others around too. Open your eyes.

"As you know, the Ford wouldn't last that long, this is why you made the smart choice to switch, and I'm with ya on that. You couldn't have a better marriage than what you have now, Ford/Cummins."

Not that I like the 7.3 Powerstroke, but one thing they are is tough. If you can put up with the other stuff, that engine will last a long, long time. Way longer than a lift pump on a Dodge truck.

"Everybody has delved into the LP issue, as a matter of fact, it's on every site out there."

Everyone ? Lets see your "delving". Where is it ?

That is exactly the problem. People have been picking fuel pumps by BRAND, without any regard as to what is actually in them and how they work. Not all pumps are made the same. They don't even operate the same.

Well, if you want to get technical, a dirty filter provides better filtering than a clean one because the big holes plug up as it gets dirty. The best way to gauge a filter's cleanliness is by its backpressure, which is why I asked if you knew the backpressure you were changing yours at.


My last point was: "Do you see anything wrong with utilizing the stock filter, which has a built in water detector, water separator and fuel heater ?"

It was a simple question. What is not to see ?

"this is why I am going to plumb my FASS to the OEM filter and housing"

Are you speaking of a FASS pump alone or a FASS pump and filter assembly ?

Aside from the pump, here is something I don't understand about the FASS system. Its a pump, two filters and a regulator. One of the filters can have a water drop on it, but there is no water indicator and nor is there a fuel heater anywhere. So I don't see them as a replacement for the stock filter housing.

And I don't like the fact that there isn't a fuel heater anywhere, especially if a 2 micron filter is involved. So what exactly is gained by the FASS filtering over the stock filtering ? If it is the 2 micron filter, then I've shown how easy that is to set up.

I really like the water in fuel indicator and the fuel heater.

Now, if one is talking about running both the FASS filters and the stock filter and pumping a decent amount of fuel past the injection pump, then we have to start looking at pressure drops and the pressure capabilities of the FASS pump, which gets me back to the Walbro. Comprendre ?

I haven't even mentioned that the FASS regulator is pre filters and thus dirty fuel is going to continuously circulate through the FASS lift pump, which is a gerotor style. Conversely, my Walbro setup pumps all the lift pump's fuel through the filter. Dirt only goes through my Walbro ONCE.

Which pump do you think will live longer with a tank of really dirty fuel ?

BTW: is the FASS Gerotor housing machined of aluminum or is there a steel insert in there ?

This question didn't get answered: "Do you or the dieselram website have ANY vested interest in the success of any particular fuel pump ?"

And, AUTO45, if you aren't a moderator at DieselRam, how did you get to shut down the thread where the guy criticized the FASS fuel pumps ?

 

Well, for those wondering I checked and it seems TI Group is a global automotive parts supplier. If you buy a Walbro in the USA, it most likely was manufactured in Tucson, AZ/ Plymouth,WI/ or Cass City, MI. So no wories about inferior foriegn made junk. Their global headquarters are locted in the heart of Auto Makers Alley just outside Detroit.

 

This ebay item says "Made in the USA".

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Disclaimer. I don't know the seller from Adam.

 

Not to muddy the waters but if you do a search on fuel pumps (gas) for early '90s fords taurus, sable, escort tracer you will find a very high failure rate. So yes there are more than just the Dodge out there with "4 or 5 fuel pumps in a vehicles lifetime"

 

I don't want to have to lock this either. To that end I say KEEP IT CIVIL.

If any you are trying to incite argument, or baiting, or trolling, I say to you put a sock in it. Debate is good as long as is kept civil, if it gets heated this thread will get locked.

Flame wars will not be tolerated.

 

Why do you say running a 2 micron filter can ruin the fuel system. I work around agriculture irrigation pumps, industrial and marine generators, all driven by diesel engines and we use a 10 micron prefilter followed by a 2micron secondary, and in 7years I have seen 0 I repeat "0" fuel system failures do to the 2micron filter. We're talkin about all types of engines from Detroit 4-71's to 5.9L B-series Cummins to John Deer, EMD 16cyl 2400 hp marine engines etc. etc. with a comined opperation life of over 5,000,000 hours. Don't say stuff when you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

FINAL warning. Keep it civil, or this thread is shut down.

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If that is your intention, then it is you who should be locked out of this thread. I actually enjoy they exchange of ideas swapped and have gained much knowledge from it.