racinrex

OK here's the situation. I am in need of a 4x4 Rat to run around with for my business... get on and off Log headers and up into fields and it needs to drive on average 30K a year while getting very respectable mileage.

I have the following:
*87 Chevy S10 w/ 2.8L 700R4 and 215K miles
*89 700R4 automatic sitting around the shop
*dilusions of putting a 4BT in that S10 and making a good daily driver out of it.

Talked to a few people about a 4BT swap and this is what I'm getting:
*Pretty much if you supply fuel under pressure (with supplied intank pump in the s10) to the injector pump and 12Volts to the starter you will have a running motor

*700R4 built solidly and with the correct converter from TCI will stand up to a stock (105HP 270LB) 4BT....

My question is this... what technical things stand in my way with putting the 700R4 behind this motor..... NOT DURABILITY but technicalities. ie vacume, detent cable etc.

Are people just blowing smoke or is this feasible?

Thanks in advance guys.

dodgeram

my 1st question would be will the bell housing bolt up to the motor ............. and do you have a flexplate that will mate the crank to the converter

racinrex

The 4BT that I'm looking at orginally had a 400 auto behind it and it comes with the flexplate. The place that is selling them said it would be possible to get the flexplate machined with the propper mounting holes for a 700R4 converter. They may also be lying to me about the ability to machine it... I'm not really familiar with auto trannies... I just happen to have a couple sitting around.

Thanks for the reply

wannadiesel

Durability from a built 700 will be no prob even with some bombing of the 4BT, those will hold a mild big block when built right. The 700 doesn't use vacuum for anything, the TV cable does everything except T/C lockup. There are several different T/C lockup controllers out there, you're going to need one that's speed based rather than vacuum controlled. You'll probably need to put a switch in the contorller circuit to unlock the converter at WOT, those lockup clutches aren't designed to take the full torque of anything.

racinrex

I did some research today and asked some people around my place of work if they knew of any Frito Lay locations locally. Turns out there is a large distribution center less than fifty miles from my work. I himmed and hawed and scraped up the nads to call. Well it turns out that they are happy to sell decomissioned trucks to individuals or small businesses. The price I was quoted was "around 1500" and they do this a "few times a year". My name was put on a calling list, basically a "got dibs" kinda thing. The whole truck would be so nice for doing a swap. I could also use the aluminium panels to make a custom box for the S10. The rest.... well off to the junk yard. If you have the room and tools to dismantle such a beast it almost sounds like the preferable way to go. I may just be repeating someone else that has posted before but I'm fairly surprised at the lack of information on obtaining these little diesels.

Talk abot your random thoughts,

jimbo

96_12V

Might want to do a weight check on that 4bt, they are small, but heavy. Could be more that the suspension, frame, brakes, and driveline of an S-10 could handle. Make sure your donar truck is a rust-free as possible.

racinrex

The 4BT is slightly heavier than the smallblock Chevy V8's and if I use the 700R4 I won't gain any more weight with a heavy tranny. The guys who swap small blocks into the S10's have few issues with suspension. Some do upgrade to a sy/ty knuckle up front to get bigger brakes. This is something I would look at as I am trying to make this a daily driver solution. The suspension in the S10 4x4's is torsion bar so you can crank that up to get good spring rate and bring ride height back within spec (eases the pressure on the CV's) I may swap the front end for a SFA but that will be further down the road unless I need the room for the oil pan, which is fairly likely. I don't want to get the thing too radically off the ground as I really look forward to decent fuel mileage out of it.

I agree with rust free donars....its always easier, but if not I don't worry too much as I'm setup to deal with most rust issues ie. Acet torch, plasma cutter, BFH's and a mig welder 8-)

mcinfantry

a 4bt is 800+ lbs. a small block is that much????
a 4bt will DESTROY a 700r4. i know a guy who has destroyed 3 built 700r4's in a early (SMALL) bronco

i run a 4bt, so my opinion is based in ppersonal experiance.

at 55mph i get 30+mpg
at 70mph i get 26 mpg

mcinfantry

it takes less than one hour to remove a 4bt with the tranny attached through the front door on a frito lay van with NO PERMENANT DAMAGE to the truck. ive done 3

LanceD

why don't you just get a NV4500 or 5600 manual out of a crashed dodge cummins? it should bolt right up and I don't think the manuals have any electrical connections except for the speedo maybe. plus if it was made for behind the 6 it can handle the 4 with plenty of mods.

racinrex

anybody have a good source for the NV trannies out of a wrecked dodge... Honestly the wrecking yards around here don't know their butt from their elbow when it comes to this crap and don't want anything to do with enthusiasts or swaps or anything interesting in the automotive world. My truck currently is an auto so i would have to figure out a clutch pedal and a way to actuate it.. If I were to use a NV4500 I could just grab everything from the flywheel back out of a wrecked dodge CTD right?

Thanks, Jim

Mechanos

Call 1-800-DIESELS .... it's the Cummins Tech hotline. I recently called them and asked several questions about swapping a 4BT/4BTA into another vehicle. The tech was MORE than helpful with all kinds of different information and even mailed be a stack of literature on Cummins re-power "kits" that lists all sorts of applications and lists various different flywheels/flexplates available to put a number of different trannies behind the 4BT/4BTA.

Chevy step vans often used the SM465 4-spd behind the 4BT.

racinrex

I'm really looking for the OD because this will be a daily driver. Thanks a ton for the info on the cummins tech hotline.

racinrex

The Small block with a fuel injection system and accessories is around 655lbs I THINK.... somebody may know better than me but I think thats what we weighed one at with TPI and everything hooked up and ready to go.

FRANKV569

i would do as much research on the 700 r4 as u can. i have had about 10 bad experiences with them--all in the same 86 blazer (diesel). rebuilt many times by different people, different cases used with no luck, even one brand new from gm! there were ''trouble prone'' years - then better ones. can you get a 4l60 or 4l80 instead and have a seperate module or computer to control it? i think they are the more reliable ones. they re a 700 r4 -just the newer electronic controlled ones i think. i have had much better luck with two 4l60's and one 4l80--actually never a glitch.