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Old 07-07-2008, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by capt.Ron
I must agree!!
Everyone has the right to participate in what ever business they want, with one caveat. If they have the funds, ability and drive to do so!
Merryll Lynch, Smith Barney, Microsoft or even Exxon mobile didn't become what they are without someone investing their own blood, sweat, and tears into these entities.
Here's another cenario;
Joe "Little Guy" buys oil futures at 140.00 but has no where near the funds to cover the total. Then the price of oil plummets to 60.00 per barrel. Who is going to pay for this contract when it matures?
Wouldn't it be better for the little guy to have rules that keeps him from jeopardizing himself with such a massive mistake.
Mark this down for the history books...I totally agree with Capt. Ron.

I know who's gonna pay for the margin difference when the price plummets; the same guys that are bailing out the mortgage defaults and the electricity deregulation fiasco...you and me. Ah, the joys of being the working middle class.

If they sent us a thank you card, I might feel better about it.

garrett
Old 07-07-2008, 05:39 PM
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Oil and Inflation

You know, the stuff we buy every day that has anything to do with oil has been going up in price. Transportation costs & raw material costs are all tied to the price of oil & fuel.

Ever thought about why the Inflation numbers seem so low when everything has gone up in cost that is associated with oil? If Inflation goes up, then all those fed govt. pensions tied to Inflation have to be raised too!!!!!!
Old 07-07-2008, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by garbri
Mark this down for the history books...I totally agree with Capt. Ron.

I know who's gonna pay for the margin difference when the price plummets; the same guys that are bailing out the mortgage defaults and the electricity deregulation fiasco...you and me. Ah, the joys of being the working middle class.

If they sent us a thank you card, I might feel better about it.

garrett
nothing better than a post with both truth and comedy.
Old 07-07-2008, 07:47 PM
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more like truth and dare
Old 07-07-2008, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dieselbuilder
more like truth and dare
the comedy i was referring to, was his comment about agreeing with capt.Ron- that was funny.
i thought the rest of the post was a big steaming pile of truth (unfortunately for us middle class folks).
Old 07-08-2008, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by garbri
If they sent us a thank you card, I might feel better about it.

garrett
At least kiss me first!!
Old 07-08-2008, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Spooler
I prefer a reach around........
..

Oh my.
Old 07-08-2008, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Spooler
I prefer a reach around........
Do you mean this
Old 07-08-2008, 05:59 PM
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Noop, but it sure is funny.......
Old 07-08-2008, 08:03 PM
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ain't life grand
Old 07-09-2008, 08:32 PM
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Now heres some common sense.... or is that lack of:

Political Link removed
Old 07-09-2008, 08:47 PM
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5, 4, 3, 2, 1, .........
Old 07-09-2008, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by capt.Ron
5, 4, 3, 2, 1, .........
'tis a sad day when the 'oil-no politics' thread is closed for being political.

on a serious note, the danger of these light bulbs breaking is completely true, so if you use them be very careful if one breaks. the one thing that wasn't mentioned is that when cleaning up the pieces, wear a dust particle mask so you don't inhale any of the mercury- pretty dangerous stuff to save a couple of pennies worth of electricity IMO.
Old 07-09-2008, 10:45 PM
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Speculators are not to blame. The commodities traders trade all kinds of commodities, not just oil.

Consider this article from the Economist:


ALTHOUGH the price of oil continues to hit new records, it has in one respect been a quiet week on the oil markets. America’s lawmakers are celebrating Independence Day by taking a few days off. That has led to a brief interruption in the torrent of proposals aimed at curbing speculation.
Ten different bills on the subject are in the works in Congress. Before the House of Representatives shut up shop, it approved one by a vote of 402-19. America’s politicians are not the only ones to have fingered speculators for the feverish rise in the price of oil and other raw materials. Italy’s finance minister believes that there is a “magnum of speculative champagne” included in the price of each barrel. Austria wants the European Union to impose a tax on speculation. Saudi Arabia and other big oil producers routinely blame the price on frothy markets, rather than idle wells.


The accusers point to the link between the volume of transactions on the futures markets and the price of oil. Since 2004 the near tripling of trading in oil on the New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX), the world’s biggest market for the stuff, has neatly coincided with a tripling in the price.
What is more, investing in oil has become something of a fad. Commodities traders and hedge funds with long experience have been joined by less expert sorts, including pension funds and individuals. All this, the theory runs, is contributing to a bubble in commodities. The rush of punters betting on higher prices is begetting a self-fulfilling prophecy: it is the tide of new investment, rather than inadequate supply or irrepressible demand, that is pushing the price of oil ever higher.

Follow the oil, not the futures

This reasoning holds obvious appeal for those looking for a scapegoat. But there is little evidence to support it. For one thing, the surge in investment in oil futures is not that large relative to the global trade in oil. Barclays Capital, an investment bank, calculates that “index funds”, which have especially exercised the politicians because they always bet on rising prices, account for only 12% of the outstanding contracts on NYMEX and have a value equivalent to just 2% of the world’s yearly oil consumption.
More importantly, neither index funds nor other speculators ever buy any physical oil. Instead, they buy futures and options which they settle with a cash payment when they fall due. In essence, these are bets on which way the oil price will move. Since the real currency of such contracts is cash, rather than barrels of crude, there is no limit to the number of bets that can be made. And since no oil is ever held back from the market, these bets do not affect the price of oil any more than bets on a football match affect the result.
The market for nickel provides a good illustration of this. Speculative investment in the metal has been growing steadily over the past year, yet its price has fallen by half. By the same token, the prices of several commodities that are not traded on any exchanges, such as iron ore and rice, have been rising almost as fast as that of oil.
Speculators do play an important role in setting the price of oil and other raw materials. But they do so based on their expectations of future trends in supply and demand, not on whims. If they had somehow managed to push prices to unjustified heights, then demand would contract, leaving unsold pools of oil.
The futures market does sometimes signal that prices are likely to rise, which might prompt speculators to hoard oil in anticipation. But it is not signalling that at the moment, and there is no sign of hoarding. In the absence of rising stocks, it is hard to argue that the oil markets have lost their grip on reality.
Some claim that oil producers are in effect hoarding oil below the ground. But there is also little sign of that, either among companies or countries: all big exporters bar Saudi Arabia are pumping as fast as they can.

It takes two to contango

Despite their dismal reputation, the oil speculators provide a vital service. They help airlines and other big oil consumers to hedge against rising prices, and so to reduce risk—a massive boon amid the economic turmoil. By the same token, they provide oil producers with more predictable future revenues, and so allow them to expand more confidently and borrow more cheaply. That, in turn, should help to lower the price of oil in the long run. Any attempt to curtail speculation, by contrast, is likely to make life harder for firms and oil more expensive.

Originally Posted by Nor_Cal_Angler
speculators...baaaaaaaah humbug.....who needs'em they are killing it right now...

here is something i learned this week and it really got me mad.

ok....a futures contract secured 1000 barrels of oil... at price of (we will use 140 to keep easy) so simple math shows us that that has a value of 140000 dollars...now this is the part that hurts us and it will be come very clear...speculators only need to put up 10 percent of the ACTUAL value of that future contract...THATS RIGHT....in not so many words....they only come up with 14000 dollars to secure 140000 in value...when that ticket gets called in august they collect big time....based on the fact that every one else is only putting up the same 10 percent of actual value and driving the price per barrel up and up and up and up...come collection time they make BIG MONEY....because by aug...they will be trading at 160,165,170 or what ever...and you go waving around your contract and 1000 barrels that you purchased at 140 and only put up 14000 to secure, and sell it off at that 170 per barrel.

here is what needs to happen IMO.....NARROW that gap....make them lay out say 70 percent of the actual value....and just see how many come running...to buy that 140-145 dollar barrel....

that is why IMO we need to REGULATE these "future contract traders"

NCA
Old 07-09-2008, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by chipmonk
'tis a sad day when the 'oil-no politics' thread is closed for being political.
I thought you would get my point.
The thread was going well, and ya never know it's still going.
Fingers crossed!! ;-)
I wish everyone here who likes the move to politics would come over to the other forum. We've been told over there that it will be closed if we don't get the membership up real soon.


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