A question have is where did you guys put the supply hose for the hydrogen? Did you put it pre-turbo or post? I have been following this thread and I didn't see where the hose goes.
Tom

 

Tom the H/O goes in before the filter. After the turbo you have boost pressure so unless your going to pump it in it's not going to work.
Clyde As to Browns gas, I don't know who he is but I have enough of my own. The chemistry and science people I've contacted have done what I am doing for class experiments and it is breaking water in two, H and O not some other combination. As far as explosive H is very explosive if it is not diluted as it would be in our intercooler and intake mixed with the other outside air. I did a little experiment one day to see what would happen if I put a lighter at the H/O tube where it entered my air box. Well the 2.5gal bucket I was useing at that time had about 2in. of air space filled with H/O and it was turned on when I did this. It barked at me and then instantly went boom. Just blew the lid off of the bucket. Didn't blow up my intake or intercooler. If your going to run your motor on H with no other fuel then you had better inject it into the cylinder. If your worried about blowing up try useing propane in your intake.
Herb I wish you would buy one and let us know how it works for you. I didn't know anyone was building anything like mine untill well after I started and haven't heard any reports of anyone haveing success with thier units, outside of the sellers web sites.
Billg I'm in this to "git er' done" also. I'm not in it for the money just to save money and let everyone else do the same if they want to. I'm also building a unit out of light switch covers it is much easier than what I've already built. Instead of useing tape I used garden hose washers to seperate the plates.

 

Tree: I was reading on another forum (I don't remember at the moment where) that someone said he uses between 5-20 amps from his 12v system. 5 amps when water tank is full about 20 when he knows to refill it.

Yes, it's cracking water and yes hydrogen is extreemly explosive. I would have the ouput of the hydrogen regulated with the rpm's of the engine or something like that as to prevent hydrogen buildup. It wouldn't take much to blow the hood off your rig.

 

thanks for posting about the amps, i was wondering how much it would draw so I know what size cable/circuit breaker to use. i'm stuck for building mine for a little while as our plasma cutter is at another shop and we're out of chop saw wheels. i'm not motivated enough to cut stainless plates with a die-grinder.

as for hydrogen being explosive...it's still a non-issue. as treedr already said, when it's diluted with outside air, it's okay. there's not enough of it in the intercooler and intake to "blow the hood off" or even damage the intercooler. ever run your truck with the intake ram-to-ic tube off? it sucks a LOT of air at idle, i don't think you have to worry about it getting overconcentrated. besides, even IF it did, very hypothetically speaking, there's no throttle blades just open to the engine on one side and at idle a flashback could blow into the engine and back through the compressor without damage(not good for the turbo but not catastrophic) there's already a lot of people(here and other sites) that are already running H and O into their trucks with no explosions. how have you made it this far through the thread and are still worried about explosions?

 

Clydeman Yes I’m working on producing Browns gas. That is why I have the multi plate generator and a pulse width modulator to make pulsed D.C. From what I have read that is what it takes to produce the gas. One thing I’ve noticed is my canister does not get hot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown%27s_gas
http://www.eagle-research.com/browng...bg/whatis.html
There is talk that Brown’s Gas will work as we are trying to use it here. I don’t know I have no experience with that. I have just recently made a small electrolyzer and have my plates conditioned. I have ordered the books from Eagle research on Brown’s gas. When I get a chance to digest them I hope to have a better idea on how to proceed.
I have the video that Roy Mc Alister did on running a car on hydrogen. Mr. Mc Alister has been running cars on hydrogen mixes for 40 years according to their website. He is heavily involved in fuel cell research and teaches on it (I have seen videos on that and he is good). He also said the modern diesel engine is the most efficient engine, even compared to the fuel cell and is planning to do another video on just diesels being assisted with hydrogen. I will be getting it when it comes out.
http://www.knowledgepublications.com...h2_car_dvd.htm
What I learned from the present video is we need at least 4 to 5 % of our total BTU intake to be hydrogen. These little canisters we are working with will be doing their best to keep up at idle. In the video they showed why these little canisters could not possibly make enough hydrogen. One of the narrators joked about how many extra alternators we would have to add to make the current needed to produce that amount of gas and they were talking about a little 2.0 liter gas engine.
I found an Excel spreadsheet on one of the sites that calculates the amount of hydrogen needed. It says we need 7.682 liters per second for our 5.9 liter engines @ 750 rpm to make a dent in our mileage with just the 4% hydrogen. We are making hydrogen and oxygen I’m sure the oxygen is having a positive effect and is not in their calculations (they were just talking hydrogen).
I’ll be interested in seeing what Eagle Research says about Brown’s Gas in this application.
jon96ctd After doing more research on the amount of gas we are making I believe you are correct.

 

I haven't worried about amps. If it blows the 30amp fuse I have in line then it's drawing too much. I don't know enough about the amps anyway on how to measure or regulate them other than too much bakeing soda causes to much current and snap goes the fuse. I've not noticed any diferance on the alt. gage on the dash.
Billg I did do the test with 10 light switch plates in about .5gal and 1/4tsp of bakeing soda with distilled water and got approximatly 1liter in 8min. If the hydrogen is actually helping the diesel burn more efficently then the gains we are seeing is not from volumes of H/O is it. I wish Oilguy would get back to us on the jeep he had that got 50% gains.
After I did my volume test I took the .5liter bottle and kept it upside down so the hydrogen wouldn't excape and stuck some wire in the ground and set the bottle on it and put a match to it. BOOM like a M80 and the bottle was a rocket. No flame just boom and the bottle left. It was a plastic bottle and I found it about 30ft away after it rolled off the roof. It didn't do anything to the bottle at all.

 

Jon: I deal with hydrogen everyday. At work there are several hydrogen furnaces. I have seen what it can do when not done right. I have also see what it can do when operated correctly. It's a safe gas when respected. At work I would rather deal with Natural Gas or propane then hydrogen just because of all the safety concerns.

Yes hydrogen dilluted a lot in the intake would be safe just make sure it doesn't concentrate anywhere.

 

I've been having trouble keeping my unit going. To much amps blowing fuses. I've backed off on the bakeing soda to keep it going and it "seems" to be helping.
AJ I haven't figured out what spill product is yet? Have you rebuilt yours yet?
Herb have you bought one yet?
Clyde are you going to build one or have you already?
Billg what happened to you? Have you got anything going yet?
What happened to the Trash guy? Did you get it working? What were your results?
Jon have you started yet?
Mntom are you going to build one?

 

i haven't started on the final for my truck yet, i just put together a small crude setup in a gallon container with two stainless steel plates. I didn't do any measuring of current, gass produced, baking soda/water ratio or anything, just a match on top of it. My brother, wife and newborn baby came home from out of state for christmas so my project's been on hold. Will be picking it back up soon.

I thought the Roy McAlistar site was very interesting and I think my other brother and I might split the cost on his all-inclusive bundle of stuff. I'm interested to see the research and results that he's had with diesel and hydrogen. It seems like a little bit of a sales pitch but the things he's made and the results he claims seem pretty reasonable.

Jon

 

Tree Dr I’m still here. I changed the configuration a little. I did away with the hose gaskets and bought some rubber grommets. That moved everything closer together. I was able to get more plates on the cell.
When I fired it up everything started as before. Then I decided to change the way it was positioned in the tank. When I shut it down I noticed there was voltage still on the plates (1.5 v dc). When I hooked it back up I couldn’t get anything to work. I tried adding more power and nothing. Then I started raising the frequency I could hear a high pitch noise coming from the electrolyzer that changed as I raised the frequency in the circuit. Then when it hit about 1.5 kHz to 2khz it started producing like crazy. I don’t know what’s going on there. I still don’t think it is enough. When I get more time I will do some more test.
Jon96ctd I got the “Hydrogen Car and Multi Fuel Engine DVD” and it is directed at the gas engine. He did an interesting test drive and changed fuels to show how the car could use other fuels with the hydrogen. He says he can run the car on diesel or any thing else as long as it is hydrogen boosted. At the end of the video he says the next video will be for the diesel people. The gas engine video was interesting. I feel I learned a lot from it. He says we need at least 4 to 5% of our total BTU intake to be hydrogen to help boost our fuel.
We are using the oxygen with the hydrogen in our setup so I don’t know how that changes the formula, I sure it helps.

 

i would think that the oxygen would help, i don't see why not. especially on a gas engine the oxygen may make more of a difference there, no? as far as his solar stuff goes i think there are probably other free/inexpensive information sources, it doesn't seem like the solar stuff he's doing is all that complicated.
i didn't see much of anything about a seperate cd mentioned for diesels, do you know how soon that'll be out? i'm interested to see the things tried and results he got with his gas engine stuff.

i'm going to try and get in touch with my physics/chemistry/calculous teacher from high school, had an AWESOME teacher that's absolutely brilliant, i want to get him brainstorming on this too. i remember he talked about hydrogen related stories and gadgets quite a bit. i made an electric motor for extra credit for his physics class, he liked it so much and it worked so well that he asked if he could keep it and still uses it as an example!

 

My only concern with the oxygen in a gas vehicle is the effect it could have on the oxygen sensor. If it was to leave the charge lean than the ECM would try and counter it by adding more gas. I’m not sure if there is enough oxygen to effect the charge or not. I don’t know how sensitive the oxygen sensor is.
The solar stuff on that site is kind of lame.
They mention the diesel DVD at the end of the “Hydrogen Car and Multi Fuel Engine DVD” they talked like it was in the making. They also said they were going to talk about making our own hydrogen. They sent me a link to an excerpt from the above mentioned DVD. It is the test drive with the Geo Metro. If you are interested I can forward you the link. It is pretty big about 66 meg (17 minutes). Just send me a private message and I will use it to forward the link. You can right click and save it to your hard drive and view it that way unless you have a super high speed connection and want to stream it.

 

well, on a gas engine, even if the oxygen made it through unburned somehow, what was left wouldn't be enough to kill the O2 sensor. the sensors tend to be a problem running high amounts of NO2 and having the fuel system inadequately set up so it runs lean, but with that you'll run into pistons coming apart, rings frying and head gaskets.
with only a 4-6% hydrogen and half that in oxygen you're not adding anywhere near enough oxygen to be problematic, besides, with the hydrogen you're adding fuel with the oxygen. i don't think it'd be enough for the O2 sensor to be affected.

reading through this guy's site again, he kept saying how basic and easy a lot of this stuff is, high school level stuff...he's got a pretty premium price for what he calls basic. not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, just a little expensive, kinda like Banks systems.

 

TreeDr, I haven't started building one yet, I just don't know how I am going to go about it. Besides, It is not the best experimenting weather right now so I might wait 'till spring.
Tom

 

Happy New Years from Virginia