totalloser

Please excuse my ignorance if I get the terminology wrong but,

I've got a water tender that has what I believe are Dayton style wheels, and was wondering (after much searching) if it is possible to convert to conventional 10 lug Budd wheels. It's got the big iron center bolted to the rims with wedges. Five lugs to the bearing hub, five wedges. 22.5" rims.

Hoping to go to Budd 22.5's with smaller tires-the tired 6-71 is having trouble pulling steeper hills with 3500 gal. Plus the rims are rusted bad enough inside to have bead sealing issues.

Thanks for any input.

pind

it can be done. Basics required are new hubs, bearings, seals, studs, nuts.

A competent truck dealer, or aftermarket supplier, should be able to go by axle brand, bearing numbers, or nominal sizes, to get what you need.

You will also need brake drums to match the hub, and go outboard if possible, makes brake jobs a LOT easier.

totalloser

Wow, I was hoping there might be an adapter. I'm tempted to pull the center off the drum and make sure there aren't five more tapped holes. Sounds more expensive than can be justified for the poor old girl.

Thanks for the input.

JKM

You wont be able to take the hub off of the drum... the drum is bolted to the hub , not the other way around.

chaikwa

An 'adapter'. WOW. You'd be willing to scab something together on a truck that is carrying 3500 gallons of water, probably traveling too fast most of the time, (or at least trying to), and is being driven by people that aren't accustomed to driving something that heavy on a regular basis.

Not picking on totalloser specifically, but this is the reason we have a DOT. It's also the reason I'm a strong advocate of firefighters being required to have a CDL to drive apparatus. People just don't have any conception of what weight IS. They know a truck is heavier than a car but have no visualization or understanding of just HOW much more or how much more strain there is on all the components that are supporting that weight. Or stopping it.

Nick02Ram

Yeah, no way to do it w/o the above mentioned hub, bearings, drums, etc... If ya tear it down, you will realize why, its a completely different set-up, mainly due to inboard drums. I beleive most Dayton hubs have the straight axle, all bearings are the same size (the outer bearing doesn't step down), I'm not sure if it's correct, but I've always called em pro-par hubs, since they take the clear plastic hub caps, and Stemco 392-7099 seals (sad that I know that off the top of my head)

pevaguy

Your best option is to just get a set of new or like new Dayton rims, replacing the rusted ones you have. They will get the job done but admittedly they won't look as nice as a set of polished aluminum Budd wheels.

2006Mega

could you try trading axles with a salvage yard, or see if they have any cutoff rear axles for sale.

LKC

I did a rear end swap on our old farm truck and switched from dayton to budd wheels. With a Hendrickson suspension, it was a bolt-in switch. It was a lot cheaper and easier than rebushing the suspension and rebuilding the brakes on an old rusty truck.

pevaguy

Nick, I think you are confusing drives with trailer or tag axles. Pro-par axles aren't "driven", just floating. Also I believe the number would be a 372-XXXX number.

pind

The only axles I can recall that don't have a smaller outboard bearing, are fruehauf axles. Both inner and outer are the same size, and the spindle vaguely resembles a pipe. Very strong units, using the 1 piece outer cap, threaded into the hub, with about a 4 13/16 hex for removing it.

Most rockwell/meritor/eaton etc, all have the smaller outer bearing. Quite often the inner is a 218248, and outer is a 212049. Seals vary on trailers, with the two most common being stemco 2109, and 2110. Which indeed are 372-xxxx numbers. 372-7097 comes to mind for one. and 307-0743 for the other. Also, hubcaps run 340-4009. and 333009 for the gasket.

I think I might just do too many trailers.

totalloser

Sorry, but I just HAVE to note that FF's in CA are currently required to carry a class B, and pass the same test as commercial drivers-including the pretrip. At least if they want to drive a class B truck. I am fully aware of the weight involved. Driving a tender is statistically one of the most (the most?) dangerous (deadly) job of a VFF, and I, like most, take it VERY seriously and NEVER drive "fast".

I was hoping to "scab together" a more modern, readily available wheel system to get rid of something that is antiquated, worn, difficult to service, and hard to find parts and mechanics willing to set up properly.

Probably the most practical solution will be what pevaguy suggested-just get some new rims. Figured I'd consider other options since budd wheels are so easy to come by-and for cheap.

Nick02Ram

Yeah, ur right, it is 372 like pind said (it's been a while little while since I've done any trailer work). I know there is a 392 somethin or other seal, though. Aren't we talking about a trailer axle? I'm not a F.F. so I very well could be wrong, but aren't water tenders pulled behind a tractor? If in fact it is a drive axle we're talkin about, that could make finding a hub increasingly difficult to match the axle shaft

totalloser

A tender is usually just a water truck set up for fire service. The fittings usually are changed to nst/nh from npt/npsh. In some areas maybe camlock etc. and a huge dump valve is added on the back for filling "dump tanks" which are portable water tanks-think doughboy-quite similar! Ours also all have top lids so they can be dump filled quickly from overhead water tanks. Sooper handy and quick.

Incidentally I was just up looking again at it, and by tape measure, it *looks* like the five bolt pattern on the wheel hub is the same as a Budd wheel. I measured the Budds on the other trucks and came up with 11.5" circle (tape over stemco hub might be off a tad) and the 5 bolt circle measured about 5.75" from the stemco hub center to the studs. I think the wheel hub needs to come off and make sure it's not just a matter of different (and more) studs to run Budd wheels. In short it *appears* that this truck may have been set up to run both wheel styles by option. Both front and rear are set up this way.

Also it appears that the drums are outboard of the bearing hubs, which obviously is a good thing from a service perspective.

chaikwa

Don't be sorry! I didn't know that and I think that's a good thing. It's probably the only state that requires it too.

It's nice to hear that you ARE aware of the weight involved. Most aren't, which is WHY it's the most dangerous job.