Folks -

I recently posted, as a current 2001 Chevy LT 1/2 ton gasser owner, reagrding ride quality, and everyone was quite decent to me as a non-Dodge owner. Thanks.

Now, I am trying to break down the costs of diesel v. gas ownership, and want to make sure my assumptions are in line with more experienced forum members and diesel owners.

I do not tow much at all. My hauling is primarily bulky items that take up quad cabin and bed storage space, but don't comparatively much, vis-avis the 600's huge capabilities. (I just need the room and want a 600!!)

First, I plan to own my truck for 100k miles, roughly 4-5 years. The diesel option at new purchase costs approximatelty $5,000.

QUESTION #1: What will the diesel engine option be worth at 4-5 years? Still $3,000-$4,000?

Second, the ugly one. Gas mileage. My 5.3 Chevy Vortec gets an honest (measured by me at refills, at the same pump) 15 mpg city (reasonably brisk acceleration from stops, 1/3 to 1/2 throttle, but never near floored, shift points at 2800-3100), and 17-18 mpg highway (cruise at 70mph, occasional deep, but never near floored throttle punches to overtake slower traffic).

QUESTION#2: Is mpg even an issue? All my research on this and other forums leads me to believe that the Cumins 600 gets somewhere around the mileage I am already getting. Admittedly, diesel here cost $1.85 per gallon versue $2.05 per gallon for 87 gas, but that doesn't even make back the cost of the Engine in 100k miles. However, if the resale of the diesel stays close to the engine upgrade cost, that needs to be considered.

(100,00 miles at an assumed average 16.5 average mpg equals 6,060 gallons of fuel. Diesel at $1.85 = $11,211. 87 gas at $2.05 = $12,423. Advantage diesel to the tune of $1,212, or a little over a penny a mile.)

To get right down to it, I am unsure I want to spend more than $25k for a truck, but badly want a diesel. Can we crunch the numbers so I sleep better?

Thanks, folks - Mawgie

 

The Cummins option definitely helps the resale value. Old trucks like mine go for 2 to 3 times what an equivalent gasser goes for. The Cummins option holds its value well, you'll get all or most of it back.

Fuel economy is not really going to be an issue for you unless you end up with an exceptional truck. Some get excellent mileage, some get awful mileage, most are in the middle about the same as you're currently getting. However, as you mentioned, in your area diesel fuel costs about $5 less every time you fill up, so equivalent mileage is still a plus, while even nightmare mileage would be roughly a wash.

An area you missed is maintenance. If you don't do oil changes yourself they are expensive, although it sounds like your use would qualify you for the 15k schedule. DIY oil changes on the Cummins run around $35 while a DIY oil change on a gasser comes in around $10. From a shop you're looking at $80 vs. $20, although the gasser will need 2 or 3 oil changes for every one on the Cummins. Gassers don't require near the maintenance they used to in 100k (no more tuneups), so maintenance costs on a gasser could be lower if you only keep the truck for 100k.

 

I think your business cost analysis is pretty good; you've shown that your gasser does a good job for what you need out of it - and it doesn't require any additional investment. It basically comes down to that one statement you said: "...want a 600!"

It doesn't sound like you "need" the new diesel, and its probably overkill for whats expected of it. Thats what makes your balance sheet hard to overcome. If you were comparing a diesel with an 8mpg gasser pulling a large load, the balance easily tips the other way.

You will recover most of that initial diesel investment if/when you ever resell the diesel, but you need to look in the mirror if you want to take that financial leap to smell that wonderful #2 in the morning and have folks roll down their windows at red lights to hear your baby idle.

 

Check your local area for vehicles comprable to the two(gas and diesel)same trucks and see what the diff. is now. Maybe a 5 year pair and a 7 year pair,that will answer the question on the economic side. Although, if it is strictly an economic question,then a 3.7 would win hands down ! You only live once and a 600 is definately not something you would think was a wrong thing to have done in the long run..............................

 

I suppose I'm not much different from you Mawgie.

I don't tow anything near the max weight the truck is rated for. It's mostly a daily driver and ocasionally the large item or towing something under 6000lbs.

I could easily do these things with a V8 gasser, actually did these things with a v6 gasser for a while.

I felt like I wanted a diesel pickup so I'd never have to worry about towing my 6000lbs up the mountians to a camp site (8000+ feet).

Now that I have the Diesel, not sure I could ever go back to a gasser.

The fact that diesel usually costs less then 87 and my truck will be worth more at resale are just nice bonuses to an already sweet deal (and truck).

So if you can handle the cost of entry, hop on board... I'm sure you'll love the ride.


-Sam

 

I think with your rationale, a gasser might be the way you want to go, but you also need to ask yourself if you will really be happy with a gasser... Before I bought my CTD, I test drove a similarily equipped Hemi, and while the hemi was quick, and the gas difference wasn't a big deal to me, I WANTED a 600.. so thats what I got. I just wanted the diesel. I only tow about 7k lbs once a month, and the hemi would have done that just fine, but the diesel was what I wanted, and what I got.. darn the consequences.. I don't plan on selling the truck, but if I ever do, I also know I'll get more for it than I would for a hemi similarily equipped.
Scott

 

Based on the difference on the whole sale price of my 97 with a gasser compared to a diesel, the diesel option cost me $1,500 for the six years. I think the option back then was around 4,000. I easily saved that on fuel costs and it was a dream tow vehicle. AND I got to drive a diesel.

 

Well, boys, I was hoping for a magic answer and there isn't one.

Realistically, the best thing for me would probably be to buy a 600 optioned more or less the way I want it, but used with low mileage, rather than new. (I got my 5.3 Chevy for wholesale book with 14,000 miles on it.)

Unfortunately, it's going to be a lot harder to come across a used late model, low mileage 600 than, let's say, a Hemi 2500, isn't it?

Still, if I am patient, and look long enough something will turn up, I'd imagine.

After driving a 600 two weeks ago, I am sure that I wouldn't look back after buying it.

I"ve got 33 acres of land my wife and I are planning to build on. It's 15 miles from my office, and the commute will be a a corker: back country roads to scenic secondary to a little highway blast to my parking spot, which is right outside my window, so I can keep an eye on my rig all day. Every time I drive the future commute, I imagine myself in a diesel, rolling on a little power now and again! I have it bad, don't I?

Thanks again for all of your input.

 

Well, not to be a barer of bad news, but finding a used 600 could be difficult.. not to mention, from what I saw, most people are wanting around 36-37k for a decently equipped 600 at least around here.. and they seem to have 20k miles on em or so.. I bought my 600 for 33.5k out the door, brand new.. Seems like its not that far off to think about buying a new truck..
Scott

 

The rebates they have now make buying new enticing don't they? As soon as the '04's are gone, there goes the rebate.

 

Mawgie,

You also need to factor in the "fun to drive" factor, which is hard to assign a dollar value to. The broad torque curve of a diesel is just satisfying to drive.

Also, you say you don't haul anything heavy, but remember you plan to keep the truck 4 or 5 years. Any chance you will want to own a large camp trailer, or a big boat, or maybe haul some material for that place you want to build?

Yes, your gas half ton gets close to the milage you could expect from a Cummins, especially a 600, but the Cummins gets way better milage than a gas truck with comparable pulling power and capacity...

Lastly, what would you think of planning on keeping the truck for significantly more than 5 years? One of the advantages of the Cummins that hasn't really been discussed is that they are robust, and it would not be unreasonable to expect 300,000 from the engine if you take care of it. The longer you are planning on keeping the truck, the more attractive the Cummis is, economically.

In the end, do what makes you happy without putting yourself in debt that you would be uncomfortable with.

As far as used rigs go, I don't think you would regret a 555 HO if you found an 03 or early 04.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

I guess the thing I'm unclear on is do you want to get a new truck, CTD or not?

If you're getting a new truck regardless, I honestly didn't find the CTD/Dodge that much more expensive than the F150 or Chevy 1500. Rebates, tomeygun price, all that came together to make it only a thousand or two more to get the CTD. The truck I wanted, not the truck I needed. And yes, I could have saved by getting a Hemi. But a Dodge without a CTD...what's the point?

If you're not getting a new truck regardless, then Mr. Logic would say that you should drive your Chevy til it dies. Which if you take care of it could be a long time. That's going to cost a lot less than trading in for the CTD.

Now if you WANT the CTD, that's a different story. Emotion and logic aren't the same.

As far as gas vs diesel cost of ownership, I think it's hard to justify that the diesel saves money, but on the other hand long term I don't think it costs much more.

 

As far as gas vs diesel cost of ownership, I think it's hard to justify that the diesel saves money, but on the other hand long term I don't think it costs much more

There it is in a nutshell. You can't justify the extra $$ in the short term on gas mileage, unless you are towing or hauling close to capacity.

I guess these are reasonable alternatives, if I am going to go for a diesel:

1) try to buy at the end of a model year, at the end of a month, and max out rebates;
2) oreder truck with minimum necessary options, for me that's Quad Cab; 600; auto, 4x4; cloth is fine; don't need premium, sound; spray in liner; Retrax; 5" exhaust and aftermarket air intake (oops, those two accidentally slipped in!).

It's either going to be $22k-25k for a used gasser that is fine, but not the stuiff the dream is made of, or an extra 7-9k for what I want.

Also, if I commit myself to keeping the truck for 150k miles, at 20k per year, the ownership costs v. gasser look a little better (again, crude analysis, but it lends some flavor to it):

150,00 miles at an assumed average 16.5 average mpg equals 9,090 gallons of fuel. Diesel at $1.85 = $16,816.50 gas at $2.05 = $18,634. Advantage diesel to the tune of $1,818, or a little over a penny a mile.) Also, at 7.5 years of age, I thnk a 150k mile cummins 600 is going to be worth substantially more than a 150k mile gasser. In other words, the longer you keep it, the more it makes sense.

Okay, for those of you saying to yourselves, lose the green eyeshade. If you want it and aren't going into the poorhouse to buy it, man up, shop and get one. I know....I know!!

Finally, I have studied up a fair amount on chevy rebates. Can someone point me to some rebate info re: Rams?

Anything like 0% financing, the equivalent of a GM card, etc.?

Thanks.

 

I know right now, dodge is having June savings days or something.. I just bought my truck 2 weeks ago.. Sticker was 46k, but I know the fleet dept manager at my local dodge dealer, and I walked out of there paying 3k below dealer invoice with all the rebates I got.. Walked out the door with my 04.5 600/6 spd 4x4 quad cab long bed for 33.5k... Now.. Price a 1/2 ton gasser from chevy, Id be willing to bet they will be just as much, if not more...
Scott

 

Got to work em, tow with em and keep them along time to really see the benefit of diesel ownership. Sure they're worth more upon resale, they're 5k more at new purchase time! Having one just to have one...... That Americana!