omaharam

So, in the last two days I have called 11 different companies that supply torque converters for diesel light trucks. Let me first start by saying that I know more now than when I started calling, but am not sure I'm any closer to knowing which way to go. Of course, other than the TC itself, there are differing opinions on if an input shaft and flexplate are needed. It's about 50/50 on both of those issues. None the less, here is a rundown on which torque converters were recommended for my specific application - which is Edge JWA, will be doing exhaust and intake, tow 9000lb camper with 2000lbs in the truck.

SIDE NOTES
Rusty at TCS said that they have tested the input shaft strength and that at 1200 lbs it does not return back to original state after twisting (.046 off ), so around 1100 lbs is max engine torque for stock shaft. Was very helpful and willing to talk. ( by the way, the billet shaft at 2200 lbs had a difference of .002)

Dave at Goerend gave me the most information over all as far as explaining why they do what they do, how it all works, etc. Also very willing to talk.

Stephan at DTT is of course, looking below, the only one that recommended a single disc converter, but makes a very strong case for it. He also was very informative and helpful but of course with ideas that differ from most of the other vendors. Also pretty willing to talk.

The rest of the guys basically didn't give any information unless I specifically asked. With Rusty, Dave, and Stephan it was a conversation. With the others it was a question and answer session.

TCI - 3 disc $1114 2yr warranty

Banks - 2 disc 2yr warranty $1439

Dunrite - 3 disc $1360 lifetime warranty, yes on shaft, no on flexplate

DTT - single disc $975 2 yr warranty, border line on shaft, no on flexplate

TCS - 3 disc $1150 2 yr warranty, border line on shaft, no on flexplate

ATS - 5 disc $1388 forgot to ask about warranty, yes on shaft and flexplate

Suncoast - 3 disc $1295 warranty ?, yes on shaft, border line on flexplate

Goerend - 3 disc $1200 lifetime warranty furnaced braised/ $1050 100,000 mile warranty not furnaced braised(said this would be ok for me aside from warranty) no on shaft, no on flexplate.

Precision Industries - 3 disc $1043 2yr warranty

BD - 2 disc $1195 2yr warranty, no on shaft, no on flexplate

B&M - lost my notes on this one but was 3 disc and pretty sure $1250 and don't remember warranty

I'm exhausted and confused and a little frustrated that I still don't know where to spend my money. I like what Stephan had to say, but it's only a 2yr warranty. Maybe I'll just take the box off and go stock so I don't have to mess with the tranny at all. Just kiddin' - I like power to much for that!

edge600

Sit back and let the ol' lady rub your feet. Thats a pretty good list and Im sure it took a good while to get all that info. Good lookin out.

bama

this would be my plan,,assuming i ever went back to a slushbox.....find out what vendor has an installer close to you.stick with the big names,skip the smaller ones....reason being,,when,and you will with mods,need to have the tranny gone through,youll need to stay with one vendor...do not get into mix and matching different peoples parts.this is a headache that you dont want to be any part of.trust me...all the warranty in the world does you no good when they all blame each others parts for the problems,and you have to foot the bill yourself........stick with one vendor,and use his parts,with his installer...........alot less problems when problems arrise...............bama

DirtEater

omaharam,
I'm having my tranny done this weekend in Phoenix by Fred Swanson who is a DTT factory trained installer/rebuilder. He's installing the DTT torque converter along with their "livestock" valve body and a few other things that DTT requires as part of a DTT tranny upgrade.

I was going to have him install the Juice/Attitude at the same time but chickened out. Need to get DC to replace my steering box first.

Hope it all goes well this weekend, and that I have nothing but high praises to sing when I get back home.

John_P

omaharam:

Good report!

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What is really amazing to me is that back on or around 2001 when ATS introduced their TripleLok Converter, some in the industry basically said it was "snake oil" and would never work. As I look at "omaharam's" list there are nine (9) companies that now have a multi-disc torque converter and five (5) companies that sell a triple/three disc converter! The only "hold out" is DTT as "omaharam" stated. Those triple disc converters work pretty darn good after all!! I know both of mine do.

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John_P

JCROMAN

You forgot to call the most honest guy of all....Dusty at HTS..... 877-630-9122 if your going to get input...you may as well get em all!!!!!

abc4yew

Guys, I agree with BAMA, The most important thing is installer support. My tranny guy is 1100 miles from my house and 30 minutes from one of my frequent routes but he was the best I could find that would install the best of what was available and delt with all the top tranny companies. To me, If you are towing anything over a pop up trailer you need the flexplate. If you don't need a flexplate then your TC lock-up's must be pretty soft. The stock flexplate is with a 78% TC with a sloppy single disc. Once you start applying 100 hp over stock and towing anything the flexplate will fatigue and fail. My personal opinion is that tranny companies that don't insist on a flexplate have been supplying high performance trucks that run empty and have the cushion of spinning rear wheels on dirt or pavement to soften the blow on the flexplate. I've seen flexplates that gone out after 30k miles on a stock 600 series that towed 12k camper. Mine went out at over 90k miles towing heavy with about 325hp to the rear duals. The toasted flexplates that I have seen with my own eyes were heat stressed around the studs. The studs typically burn out of the disk and cut the disk into an outer ring and an inner mangled circle. Mine unfortunately pushed two or three studs forward an pulled two back...cutting a perfect circle into and through my bell housing adapter plate and taking off the starter cog. The TC got thrashed as did the pump the OD and direct clutches. The flexplate may never go if you drive empty or gentle but why take the chance.
The ATS warranty is 15k mile year one 15k mile year two up to 100k mile total year three. (3 year 100k mile).
If you are going over 375 rwhp and towing(especially with a lockup controller) you need at least the TC, VB, flexplate and input shaft. Over 425rwhp, a performance intermediate shaft and more clutches and billet internals. Over 500rwhp all of the above and a performance output shaft. ks

gunracer1

i bought one from don, money was tight and he offered everything that every one else was offer at a better price. he built mine with a stall speed of 2200 that i asked for. and so far it has been good. but i have not run it but 1k miles but, this is behind a set of turbos and a lot of fuel.

gunracer1

whoops i forgot the link.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CUMMI...QQcmdZViewItem

omaharam

Hey guys, let me clear up one thing I forgot. When I called Dunrite, he was very willing to spend the time to talk as well - even though I wasn't thrilled with what he was saying.

As far as DTT being the only "hold out", he has a completely different theory than the other guys. His opinion is that 100psi against one thick disc is stronger and more dependable than 100psi split between three thinner discs(33.3psi per disc). He aslo claimes that the extra parts inside create a flow problem for fliud entering, circulating, and exiting the converter housing. He said that eventually the middle disc will come apart because it does not get enough fluid. Also, he said that a single disc is rebuildable for about a third of the price of re-doing a 3 disc which really insn't rebuildable and your basically starting from scratch.

As far as install support, I will be the one doing the install, so that is really not relavent to me specifically, but good advice for some.

abc4yeu -
as far as a flexplate, I was told by two different people that there are two common reasons the flexplate fails. #1 is full boost lauches with lots of traction. #2 is not getting the torque converter bolts tight enough. I was told that if you look at a failed flexplate, many times the holes from the torque converter bolts are oval shaped, indicating that it was lashing and then finally broke. Again, this is just what I was told, I am still not 100% convinced but am leaning against.
Also, on the input shaft, it isn't really the amount of horsepower, but torque. Again, they have been stress tested and will hold 1100lbs. There are again two basic reasons why these fail. #1 is that people go over the 1100lbs (at the crank) and it just won't handle it. #2 is that if you do have a lot of power and are close to 1100lbs, let's say 950-1000, if you do hard launches the initial stress that transfers upon immediate application may be enough to break or stress it to the point where it is no longer as strong.

And finally, JCROMAN, thanks for the HTS suggestion, I forgot about them and will certainly be giving them a call.

PanteraGSTK

In technology the less parts you have the less likely there is something will break. More parts = more "points of faliure" as we call it in my industry. The DTT converter uses the same theory that cummins does. Less moving parts=more reliability. At least thats what I think. DTT also has stated on their forum that a triple disk is more than anyone could ever need. (not that that is a bad thing) he says why spend more on something that is over doing it. He says that a single disk will work for most of us.

dzltrqcrzy

Great report !!

SHARPMACHINE

I second that, we could use more like this and have fewer threads! Good job and thanks.


question = no on shaft and/or no on flex plate, What does this mean, I may know but would appreciate it if you could elaborate.

thanks again

cquestad

I learned the hard way...

Do everything you can afford from one of the bigger guys that is closest to you. If you can't do it all...pray for your tranny till you can! LOL

phox_mulder

Billet input shaft and billet flex plate.

Most companies don't think you'll need them till you have enourmous power.

I noticed ATS was a yes on the flex plate, could this be because they are the company that makes them?
Someone recently got a full Goerend tranny, in the 2nd gen performance section, and got a flexplate as well.
I noticed in the pics that it had ATS stamped on it, is this the same company?


phox