Guardrail

Welcome to 1990.

qzilla

Yes, really from a phone.

Here is where I think things are getting skewed a lot.

It is not the phone that has these abilities. It is the hardware we plug into the vehicle that talks to the phone or touch or whatever.

I think that is the biggest misconception about what is going on.

These other apps simply use a very basic obd2 chip that spits out the most basic forms of data and then the phone connects to them. This is why they don't have external sensors or engine control, turbo timers or proprietary data for these apps. It is not the phone or device that is the problem it is what you are connecting to the actual vehicle.

That is a great question. First I don't think the need is that great. Yes there are a lot of people that seemingly want to go this route and there is a market but, the really big market is for the guys that want something that is relatively simple.

Obviously if I had hardware doing all the things a real time emulated ECU could do it would be drastically more expensive. I have no plans of every going that route but, people have and more people will. It is great for that niche group and there will be some great things come from them.

The downside is that you need to be intricately in tune with exactly how these engines work, how the software in the ECU's work and why. Otherwise you will have all sorts of issues with a complete stand alone ECM.

So what we did was go the "engine control for dummies" route. I say that in jest because you still need the sese to be able to make logical adjustments but, we basically made things like rail pressure or timing be able to be changed by the average guy. Can you intricately tune the rail pressure, no. You can make adjustments to alter the curve or raise or lower the max amount of added rail pressure though. You can scale it via throttle position and/or boost.

So while not anything like a stand alone ECU this still offers the 3 main things that need adjustments and allows the average guy to do so without causing himself any real grief.

Nope. We do not directly control all of the injectors individually outside of the ECU so there is no way we can do that. We also do not re-write anything to the ECU so we cannot do it that way either. The one exception to this is on the 98-02 vp44 powered vehicles where we do have full control of the pump which controls the injectors. We do raise the rev limit and directly control any amount of injector pulse you want.


This is not the end all be all for huge power. It is great to stack with many programmers though since you can fine tune it to your needs. It is great for the average guy wanting more power, or lots of data with lots of features, or the guy that wants both of those things.

For the money you can't go buy an EGT gauge, Turbo Timer, Boost gauge, FP gauge, Rail Pressure gauge, and scan tool (for dtc clearing) for the same amount of money. Then look at all the bonus features you get.

Logan08

Ya I'm a Droid user too - need to add some more cool apps for the Droid. I will def take advantage of testing when you come out with an app.

_________________________
Logan

amlee

Me three. That big 4.3" DROID X screen docked on my windshield is beggin for some gauges and controls on it.

qzilla

Big 4.3" screen...........


How about a 9.7 screen!

These are iPad screen pictures but, this is on a 6.7L truck.

This is the wifi box, it just plugs in where the pulse plugged in.



Connecting to the wifi box



iPad main screen



iPad vs iPhone for size comparison



This is how you pick what gauges you want



This is how you change settings



After you turn them on you set the time or temp like this

Brian Lent

I just drooled on myself. If I get ahold of the Ipad I'm without a doubt interested. That is just bad. Wireless is also a great idea.

gpshemi

Ok. I stand corrected. That's pretty sweet. I still think your limited running the ipad / iPhone OS though. You need to port it over asap and I think I'd be seriously interested. I see several options with something like Andriod, Ubuntu, or Windows 7.

qzilla

Wait until we get the rest of the features turned on and released!

DTC read and erase, custom on the fly tuning. performance tests and datalogging are all being finished up right now.

It is a seriously sweet setup. Of course I am biased but, there is not anything else like it at all, nothing nearly as powerful with all the real options the diesel guys will use every day!

Keep in mind why we used apple. Right now, today ANYONE can use an itouch or an ipad and make this work. No data plans, no cellular contracts, no strings attached. Yes it also works on the phones but, its not a requirement.

Think of all the millions of people that already have ipads and itouchs (ipod essentially). Not to mention an itouch brand new is less than $200 with the no strings advantage.

The Droid is getting there for sure, its a great operating system and we love it just like you guys do but, I cannot spend this kind of money before these types of devices are even available. I think by Christmas you will start to see competion to these things in the Droid market but, nothing yet.

Its hard for me to have something that makes people switch plans, pay upgrade charges etc to use it. I know its hard to believe but a LOT of people still do not have smart phones so these other options are very realistic for them.

I am not an apple guy by any stretch, its just that for this application it makes sense right now.

If it was just a matter of porting we would have already done it. The problem is they are all complete re-writes. We are talking $50-100K each in development time! No to mention we are giving the app out for free!!!!!!!

If someone wants to sign a contract I will be happy to give them all the source code needed to do a Droid or Windows app but, it is going to take a LOT of work.

I plan on doing it, I just don't know when. At some point you have to stop spending and go with what you have if you know what I mean.

We already have some very basic windows programs but, they aren't sexy! Its stuff we use in house for tuning and use in development.

I have also thought about making a SDK for these products and having it be somewhat open source. I am just not sure how this would work since there is a lot of proprietary info involved.

We will be done with this one in the next 4-6 weeks it looks like. It is functionally working but, we have to finish all the bells and whistles through updates.

Version 1.0 will be released Nov 8th as it stands now but, it will lack a few features and we will update every week or 2 until every vehicle has every option available!

gpshemi

So your suggesting that the average joe can't run Andriod, Windows7, or Ubuntu like they can an iProduct? Paaaalese...

Here's what I was getting at. In terms of this on the ipad, it's sweet and I said that. No doubt. At this point theres little else on the market to compete with iPads too. The market is waiting to see if it's another Apple niche "got keep up with the jones" product or fills a true desire. It's taking market share from notebooks, so it may take off. At big $$$, the jury is out. If it does though, you can be sure iPads will see serious pressure from WebOS, Andriod, and Windows7 tablets fairly quick and iPads will once again be a minority. Let's face it, at that point it will be another typical Apple propietary overpriced iProduct.

Aside from that though, theres a very small number of ipads out there relative to smartphone users, and of those smart phones, iPhones are a small number in the total market place. New sales, Andriod is now outpacing iPhone sales. The future in smartphones is probably not iPhone. It's likely Andriod..or maybe Windows Phone 7, but i doubt that too.

Prospective buyers might be able to buy a iTouch for less than $200, thats true, but how many will? How many will just roll that $200 into a Bully Dog GT or buy conventional gauges instead? I for one would not go out and buy an iTouch to run your application and I certainly wouldn't pony up for an iPad as cool as your combo is. It's just too much coin in hardware.

Bottom line as cool as it is with an iPad, there's simplier and more fiscally responsible options out there.

qzilla

No no no. Please re-read what I said.

My point is that all of thendroidndevices are $400+. If a guy doesn't have one not only does he have to pony up for a very nice but also very expensive new phone he will likely be required to extend his cellular contract or get into a new one.

If a guy doesn't have a smartphone or an apple product there are multiple options from $180 and up to get the device he needs to make it work.

So all in all it is way way way cheaper for guys without smart phones to go with the apple devices. Had I done droid to start with I would be explaining to all the apple customers they simply need a new $400 phone and new cellular deal to make it work. That's a much tougher sale obviously.

It's not about what is better or who will win ultimately it is whatnis better for the masses and right now the clear choice is apple simply from a cost and Internet/wireless only device standpoint.

Will the droid system catch up in thenlower priced, non-cellular arena catch up, yes but who knows when.


So I am not ******* droid or the users at all. I think simple math will show you where we made our decision.

I am glad you brought this up because it help solidifies my point.

Our product retails for $799. Just looking around quickly tells me it will sell for around 20% less and maybe more but 20% seems to be industry standard. That puts us at $640 or so plus a $180 brand new iTouch for a total of $820.

A gt looks to be about $750 ish at the cheapest including the egt probe?

Now there is no comparing the gt to an touch and no one will argue that. The gt has a tiny display that is not full color and is not touch screen.

So the better question is who would not spend $70 more and have a brand new touch and all it's features plus a turbo timer, fuel pressure gauge, true rail pressure gauge, on the fly tuning capabilities plus all of the other safety features i have mentioned here before?

To me when you compare apples to apples there is no comparison dollar to dollar.

Once again, if you compare apples to apples you cannot piece meal any conventional gauges together with anywhere near the capabilities for a similar price point. It's just not possible.

You have to look at all the features you get, not just a few gauges too. Even sans any engine tuning or horsepower or stacking gains it's a bargain.

Worse case scenario you have a dedicated phone with a bonus touch for playing around with. It's not like they aren't cool even if you are a droid guy, the apple stuff is sexy and functional.

gpshemi

I think the iTouch is a valid point. I can see what your saying now about a cellular contract, but anyone paying $400 for an Andriod device with a 4" touch screen got screwed blued and tattooed. Brand new Driod 2 or Fascinate are $125 with 2 yr contract, even fancier models are only $179, and lets be honest...who doesn't have (or need) a cell anyway these days? An iTouch?...ehh...not so much, but a small audiance might.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree though. It's a sweet sweet system on the iPad. Just pricey after hardware. I wish you luck with it for sure.

Bang for the buck is still in my BDTD and outlook monitor for $250. LOL. Not nearly as cool as your iPad setup though. Kudos to you on developing it.

59c

I would like to test the program if I do test the program I will buy the Itouch.

Logan08

That is awesome. Definitely makes me rethink and just go get an ipad.

RamNu2

I am glad I have a Droid and have other options for controlling ecm limits. This way I can get a Dongle for $20 and my DROID that is already in my contract and have all these guages you offer and don't want the options that you have for timing, duration. OH with a free app as well.

I am sure it will have its spot in the crowd but not for that money. MHO

qzilla

Enlighten us.

Showing us would even be better.

Show me EGT monitoring, FP, Turbo Timer etc.

Lets see it for $20.

Seems like if that was true the Droid crowd woudn't even bother chiming in that they would like to see this for the Droid.

Droid guys, be a little patient we are working on stuff!