Raspy

Here we go again. I've had tires mounted, balanced, changed and re-balanced on my H2s. Never have I had a tire shop inspect the center clearance hole to see if it might look different than a factory finish. In fact I I've never had the center hole inspected on any wheels that I know of, and I've certainly not had someone note that the finish in that hole may look different than what they know to be stock, and therefore refuse to mount them. Sheesh.

If you are not comfortable with opening them up, then don't do it. I am, I did, and it has been fine.

Wetspirit

ColdCase

I don't have pictures handy, drawing attached. The H2s have a lip that is trimmed off similar to trimming off excess formica from a countertop. The wheel lip is much thicker, however.

The router with a $14 trim bit is not going to give you as smooth a finish as a machined wheel, but certainly does not look like a hack job. The original front edge is retained as well as 1/8 inch or so of the hole, so when the wheel is mounted on the truck you wouldn't notice the hole expansion unless you look carefully. The center cap covers it anyway.

PEAKSTRYDE

Wetspirit,

Why don't you want/care if the rim fits snug around the hub?????????????

Are you saying that there is NO reason DC designed their wheel to fit this way??


To All:

The best size center bore is to match the wheel built to the spec of the truck. If these are NOT hub centric and are in fact LUG centric then why is there more play in the lug holes than the center?????????????????? Even when tight, with a load there is room to "hog" out the lug holes in the rims while wearing out/striping the threads on the lugs.

If this is a LUG centric design then is should be snug and tight fitting from lug to lug (which it is not). Therefore center bore size would not matter.

ColdCase

Not really at the weight rating of these trucks. If the lug nuts are tightened to spec on our trucks then the wheel is not going anywhere without the hub attached, especially with 8 of them.

We all know a hub-centric wheel uses a chamfered center bore that fits onto the raised section of the hub. When automobile manufacturers design a vehicle, they utilize hub-centric wheels so that:
* The wheels are positioned very precisely on the car.
* The possibility of shifting while being mounted is minimized.

The alternative to a hub-centric wheel is known as lug-centric.
* The wheels are located solely by the lug nuts rather than the wheel hub.
* As the lug nuts are tightened, they adjust the wheel's position relative to the hub, thus centering the wheel.
* Properly torqued, the lug nuts continue to keep the wheel centered as the vehicle is driven.

On more heavy duty vehicles, when the lug nuts are tightened, the weight of the vehicle is supported solely by the fit between the wheel's center bore and the hub

Lug centric is a marketing phrase made up by a few aftermarket wheel manufacturers who don't offer hub centric wheels. Their theory is that if the wheels are drilled for conical seat lug nuts, then the wheels will self locate. As a result, lug-centric wheels require extra care in mounting on a vehicle.

A few thousandths difference in center clearance is not going to matter on our trucks and more clearance makes the wheels less likely to glue to the hub.

Don't know what you mean by lug to lug, unless I missed something its the lug to lug snugness same hub or lug centric.

You can purchase Hub centric rings for fitting wheels with oversized center holes. The result is a truer, better balanced tire/wheel assembly. This is very important with modern high tech suspension systems (i.e 150 mph vettes), not so important for 70 mph trucks that have bulky and heavy tires.

http://www.1010tires.com/hubrings.asp for example

So what does it all mean…. if you are not having wheel balance problems, don’t worry about it and keep the lug nuts torqued properly.

Fisherguy

HUBcentric or LUGcentric...

Well this is interesting, especially since I've never actually taken my wheels off myself...


I DO know though that my old 1990 F250 must have been HUBcentric, there was a deffinate raised part on the hubs the wheels sat on. Matter of fact it was that shoulder that made it so hard to get the wheels off the truck, I used to have to kick the hell out of the tires when I undid all 8 nuts to get the wheels to break free from the hubs, or bash them with a sledge hammer.

Somewhere we must be able to find out for sure if these things are hub or lug centric, cuz I'm thinkin the chrome H2 wheels look pretty cool....

cquestad

If these hubs are hubcentric...then tell me why the lugs are "acorn" style?

LOL


Hubcentric wheels have no taper in the holes...and flat lugs!

ColdCase

It probably costs less overall to use acorn style nuts, tapered wheel holes, and hub centric wheels for alignment. Manufacturing to small tolerances costs a lot, and acorn nuts with tapered wheels can adjust to a lot of slop. On the build line, slapping a wheel on when everything is aligned by the hub is quicker than trying to line up the lugs especially if the tires/wheels are heavy. They are less concerned about how difficult its to maintain down the line (after the warrantee period).

Virtually all original equipment wheels are hub centric for alignment purposes. Because many of the more finely tuned suspensions are very sensitive to wheel balance, it also reduces out of balance complaints (i.e. warrantee costs).

But do we really care?? There are millions of lug centric aftermarket wheels out there, and tons of RAMs with H2s and no reports of issues... and its only us that may care if it takes longer to mount a wheel. Solid axles and big tires can mask a few thousandths of miss alignment.

cquestad

Um...NO!

Take your micrometer...and go measure.

The OEM wheel and the OEM hub. They are not tight...

There is a "flange"...so I know why people keep thinking that they are hubcentric...but they are not.

The "one" main reason you want your machining on the H2 wheels close is for balancing. Most shops would center the wheel by the centerbore...unless you asked them to lug center...which most shops can't do.

Acorn nuts...mean only one thing...lugcentric. You would never use both...or you would not get "uniform clamping".

ColdCase

True about the balance but wrong about the nuts. Acorn nuts have nothing to do with lug vs hub centric.... period.

What would you call wheels that have non beveled wheel holes and either lugs that fit them snuggly with flat nuts, lug nuts that are straight and fit into the holes snugly or bolts that fit the wheel holes snugly and no center hub? .. that is besides a pain to install. These are lug centric too and depend on the lugs for proper alignment or weight carrying. Wheels that depend on the lugs for proper alignment typically do not use acorn shape nuts or bolts, they can but not often.

Don't confuse the type of wheel attachment with whether the wheel depends on direct contact to the hub for one thing or another, which is what is meant by hub centic

Oh its true that the OEM wheel and hub are not that snug, at least I don't think so. So at best its an alignment or safety thing, not weight bearing. With the wheel held tight to the hub, there should be clearance between the lugs and wheel.

cquestad

So are you agreeing with me or not...it looks like you changed your mind.

Dodge OEM hubs/wheels are lugcentric.

Raspy

The center hole size does not matter as long as it clears the hub to go on. This is because the wheels are LUG centric. The weight is carried by the lugs and the centering is done by the lugs. The lug bolt holes must also be clearance holes to allow the wheel flange to go over the lug bolts. The lug nuts are tapered so they center the lug bolt holes to the lugs. The centering is not done by the lug nut clearance hole or by the wheel center hole, but by the lug nuts fitting into their tapered holes.

The lugs tighten into tapered holes so there is zero play or clearance. Even if the center hole was a fairly tight fit, it would not have the load carrying capacity of the zero clearance bolts. And when those eight nuts are torqued down into taperd holes they will definately "center" the wheel on their center. At that point the center hole is only a clearance hole, meaning it is not centering or carrying a load. This is the way all wheels with tapered lug nuts work as far as I can tell. Some wheels have a sort of flat washer arrangment behind the nuts and must have the center hole fit properly to support the weight. But not Dodge trucks with stock or H2 wheels.

Wetspirit

Raspy

The wheels are centered on the balancing machine by a large tapered cone that sits against the balancing taper in the back of the wheel. This taper leads into the center hole and some of it remains after the centers are opened up to fit Dodges. As long as the center hole is not big enough to remove this tapered part of the wheel, it will center properly for balancing. The "center" hole can be out of round or off center and still get a proper balance as long as the balancing taper is still there.

Wetspirit

ColdCase

Yeah that's what I meant to say... I was confused by a couple definitions of hub centric out there.

Because the stock wheels fit snuggly to the hub, you may think these are hub centric. They are chamfered and fit snuggly just to get the lugs close enough to lining up and the weight of the wheel and tire off the studs to avoid distorting them. The wheels are precisely centered by tightening the lug nuts and the clamping force makes the wheel and hub basically one piece. Many call this alignment thing hub centric, but by strict definition hub centric wheels have center holes machined to exactly fit the hub, either to precisely center the wheel or to carry load..

It seems that the most common cause of a vibration is a wheel that is off center slightly. With lug centric wheels, vibrations occur when the lug nuts are installed incorrectly, such as when they tighten one side before the other the wheel can be "pulled" to one side, and clamped such that it can't be "pulled" to the other side for centering. A snug wheel/hub fit keeps the pulling to a minimum. The modified H2 wheels centers are so close to the stock wheel diameter that neither alignment or load bearing is a concern. Using a proper torque sequence, it won't matter.

These threads are starting to remind me of the old joke:

"Mummy mummy, why am I going in round and round in circles?"

"Shut up kid or I will nail your other foot to the floor."