Getting the heat out of the engine is a good goal...but not at the expense of efficiency... Oversizing the exhaust housing is way old school for turbo design. The important thing is to balance the compressor and exhaust sides with the tightest housings possible to achieve maximum efficiency. The oversized housing spools the turbos quickly as it allows the exhaust to focus at the tips of the exhaust turbine where it has maximum impact leverage on the shaft but you lose efficiency as the exhaust flowing in the extra space between the housing and the turbine is wasted. This is simple stuff. When you design a turbo to be at maximum efficiency the trade off is that its map becomes very narrow and more purpose orientated. The K31/Aurora 5000 is purpose orientated....It works best with full fueling between 20 and 60psi. Daily driving is 6 to 20psi... towing is 12 to 25psi....Therefore towing with the A5000 requires a good degree of driver input to keep the revs higher to keep the engine pumping enough to keep the turbo on Map.
I often see the word engineer overused when tried and tested would be more appropriate. The only engineers doing work on turbo systems are those at the turbo manufacturers....not typically at the assemblers like II or ATS.
The K31 is the most efficient heavy duty use turbo on the market. The GT series of turbos are probably the most efficent race use turbos. The S300 turbos are the most widely used turbos as they have tons of different wheels and housing available...are cheap to mod and buy and make the turbo companies the most amount of money as they buy them for $500....mod a housing, change a wheel and then they are $1500.
In 2006, I talked alot with Brett and Brady about turbos and fueling as Brett and I were the first to run the Super CP3.4...Brett was running a sps66 but was over fueling it so they went to a K31 and it worked great for performa ce and agressive driving but would surge if you didn't keep it on Map...He then went for the Silver Bullet and it never made reliable power but it might not have been the turbos fault.... I was running s300/s400 twins and couldn't get a good dyno due to traction issues...dually open diff...but on the street I could run 70 to 90 psi all day long...Eventually Brett and Brady saw the light and developed their Twins...which several guys on here are using everyday and to dyno in excess of 750hp.

If you goal is to make 550 to 650 hp as a daily driver with light towing the SPS/ProStreet 66/SilverBullet or other similar will be the turbo to use.
If you plan to tow than a 62/64, 12/13/14, 68/71 is the ticket to do this and still dyno occassionly to 600 or so hp.

If you are spraying Nitrous you will need a larger exhaust housing simply for the fact that you are chemically increasing the size of the compressor housing beyond what the smaller housing turbines were designed for.
Ya can't sledpull with Nitrous and the consensus is that #2 only dynos give true engine potential... If you make 1000hp on fuel only...then you can easily change the turbo add spray and bang off a 12 or 1300. Just my tried and tested opinion.

Oh ...about the ATS thing...I'll take the stand upness of Clint over Brady every day of the week. ATS has looked after me 100% and I've never bought anything directly from them....II hasn't looked after me 10% and I've overspent alot on that one.

I bought the smaller K31 housing from II. It and a matching ATS T4 exhaust manifold were like $700. Bought the brand new K31 for something like $330. on Ebay. KS

ks

 

you guys are not reading what im writing. you going around the point.

yes the k31 flows more air out of the compressor, but it DOES NOT flow more out of the exhaust--thats all im saying.

also the silver is only made up to a 66mm at this point. belive me i know, they will have a 71mm in a few months but not now. they do offer a 71 phat shaft that we may be putting on soon, but wade has other intentions with his carrer, he may be persuing the pro street class with a CR race truck totally different than what he has, and it will have a bigger turbo than the SB im sure.

why do we support II 100% well it's because they make good products, wade had yet to find a issue with any of there parts, and has proven there parts all the way down to the same injectors that kerry scott had in his truck! yes the same exact ones that don M said were junk, i think we have proven that II makes a good product no matter what it is. and we will continue to use them and prove our results with them.

hook my truck to a sled are you serious? i only make 600hp........you would kill me justin, plus im a manual with a con ofe, im not sure it would like me very much after that.

 

well i dont have a lot to touch on there except that you nitrous comment is very close to why we still have the SB on the truck, it works well together.

 

How about some facts to back up what your saying?? Right now the only numbers I've seen have come from other people...all supporting our arguments!

K31 is a T6 inlet, 1.28A/R Wastegated housing, and is a 5" outlet...the is no way ANY S300 hybrid will outflow that...PERIOD!

Hybrid K31 would be either a T3 or T4 inlet, and hook to a 4" downpipe at worst, and some T4 K31 housings have 5" outlets. Either way, with the turbine wheel that they have, regardless of housings, down to the .80A/R that ATS uses on their A5000, it should still outflow a S300 hybrid. 3mm's of turbine wheel diameter is a lot of area once it's spinning at 80K RPM!

I would think the T3 inlet is the bottleneck on anything 66mm and larger...the more flow you have past that point, the more efficient you will be! A .80A/R housing with a 76mm turbine wheel is a bigger area than a "16cm" housing and a 73mm wheel. BTW, I'm taking my 73mm turbine wheel measurement on the SB from memory

Chris

 

who do you know thats running a t4 manifold? in that case im talking about the t3 manifold it has a 3.5 out let and a 5" inlet, straight from ATSdiesel.com!

 

what about running the Innovative Turbo,Twin Ceramic Ball Bearing turbos, i have yet to see people using the ball bearing big single turbos, why is that ?

 

Probably cost and most big BB singles arent marketed for our application (ie bolt on). We know they're out there.

 

I'm glad Wade made big power running the same injectors as me...Maybe he'd like to run the resulting pistons if I can find all the pieces. The nozzles could not be kept clean....the three big holes would carbon up and I was using Power Kleen, Standyne, and Cenpeco Pullers, at max strength. I put on Don M's Flux 3 hellfires and the driveability increased significantly and I made over 90 more hp and almost 180 more ft-lb of torque.

Other than the carboning of the three holes the main problem with II was that I gave them 6 mint 03 injectors and got 6 POC antique injectors dating back to 1999. Then they told me that those nozzles weren't working for Brett either and that they'd send me a smaller set...45 versus 62L. I called every week at least once a week for at least 2 months and then I gave up.

Don M took the II injectors removed the nozzles sent the nozzles back to II for me and then reman'd a mint set of 04 injectors and put the latest Hellfires back on and shipped them back to me within 10 days. All for a price that was well ....saintly.

With II I'm out $1200 (900 MD cost) for the nozzles and $450 for a dual fuel line that was billed to the credit card for a second rail line that was suppose to be included in the Super 3.4 kit. I don't have stories, I have receipts to prove my version of the story. I'm sure Brady will eventually remember me and send me a silver bullet and we will be best buds again and I'll never mention the down side of what was looking like a longterm relationship. If I was just running the strip with nitrous....the II injectors probably would have stayed clean and I'd have made the power promised.
The joke is that I had Flux 3's lined up to be done and Brady talked me into a great deal with their injectors which were matched and tested with the Super Pump. If I hadn't listened to this ....I'd probably be super best buds with Brady and would be running a set of II twins and be their strongest promoter. Robert....If your talking to Wade....feel free to let him tell Brady about the Silver Bullet part.
Kerry

 

a few thoughts..........in 1999 the HPCR was not in exsistence--even in europe! with 23+kpsi and all that cleaner i would be surprised to see any thing clog up, and the silver bullet, i think you should call brady on that one

 

Does anybody have a Dietroit Diesel part number for the k31 with a 1.28 housing? Will a detroit dealer even stock this turbo?

 

BlueDually,
Search for: "K31" in this forum. There is a thread and the part number is listed.

 

I dont have anything to add to this discussion but I wanted to say this is some good info and also thanks to Kerry and Robert for the information posted above I know this has been very helpful to me and many others trying to learn more about turbos.

 

Robert, Yep that got me also but the injector body clearly had 1999 in the date code and since there is no 99 month or day everyone thought it was the year...I could get Don M to take a Picture for you but I think he has them framed in his injector Museum. I'll have to mention that to Brady in next years Christmas Card. Once you get over the 30k spent on parts and labor ....everything is just for amusement. . I heard that Wade is thinking of Running a 3K K31....the darkside lures another. ks

 

thats funny, but wade has a different turbo in mind, a bit bigger than the k31--but it's not going to happen for a while.........

 

Umm...Yeah, actually I do! ME!
ATS makes a T4 manifold, and Joe Hellman will make you whatever you want!

You can buy whatever you want with enough money...so it was a very valid statement!

Still waiting on some supporting numbers!
Chris