With the advice/help of John_P I installed a Holley Blue pump on my 04 Ram. I did not follow his instructions as far as using "AN" type fittings and braided fuel line although I would have to say this would have been a better installation but my laziness prevented going this route. For those interested I did the following"

Using a large hole existing in the frame rail I mounted a bracket fabricated out of 1/8"CRS-w-a 4" (I think?) 3/4" Bolt and large washer on the outside of the frame as the existing hole is nearly as large as the hex head. The bracket was heated and bent-w-the center part about as large as the self locking nut and the "ears" drilled for the pump mounting bolts ala

___5/16" hole____ ___5/16" hole___
l l
l l This is about a 3/4" offset
l_hex size_l
I put two mounting "studs" in the 5/16th holes-w-bolts and nuts so I could just hang the pump on the studs and bolts it up-w-seperate self locking nuts.
The plumbing was EASY! I first made sure I could get a replacement rubber hose that goes from the hard supply line to the lift pump. Being able to do so if need be I cut the rubber line and used a piece of it that was molded about 35 degrees to go from the end of the hard line (I left the disconnect in place and it has a barbed fitting on it). This mated to a straight 3/8" NPT barbed fitting on the in side of the pump and I used some heavy zip ties to keep things tight-this is the vacuum side remember. I then trimmed the hose from the lift pump to mate-w-another barbed fitting on the out side of the pump. I reused the spring clamp that was on the stock setup but may go to a screw type clamp if a see any sign on leakage.
Electrically I used a little "horn/headlight" relay from Advanced Auto to run the pump when the lift pump comes on. To trigger this I got a little cable from Cummins part number 4025182 and tapped into the + lead-w-the trigger wire. This 8" cable has the right connectors on it to enable you to just remove it and plug the stock connector right back into the lift pump if the need arrises (great idea John_P). Now I feel like I have the fuel availability for the upgrades I have done. I could swear when I stomped it in the past it would fall off after about 85mph. This is no more.
I plan on mounting 4 guages in the "cubby hole"-w-a self made black plexiglass plate that I hope to emboss a grid texture to. This will, of course, trash the cubby hole because there is not enough room for 4 guages in the hole but the bezel is plenty wide enough for a fabricated plate. It seems like the ideal place for EGT, Fuel Pressure, Boost and trans temp read outs. I will post pictures as I get it done.
Sorry for the long winded explaination.
Howard Christian

 

Please be aware the bracket shape did not post the way I had it originally "drawn"
HC

 

Pictures? I am interested in this pusher mod! As soon as you get a fuel pressure guage, tell us what the numbers are. Thanks!

 

are you using the holley pump to eliminate ever having to worry about lift pump troubles again ?? can the late 2nd gen trucks ( late 98 - 2002? ) use this set up aswell ?? whats the cost of this set up compared to replacing a lift pump if this is why you are doing it. im just curious thanks, scott ( properly valved rig ) just teasing you guys

 

Howard:

Glad to hear you got the Holley Blue Pump installed!
I knew you could do it! Howard, I recently returned from
a long trip out to Denver and ran into another Dodge CTD
owner who had used fuel lines other than the stainless steel
braided variety and his connectors were corroding pretty bad.
He believes it is from all the snow and salt they use on the
roads out there. Of course, we have the salt air here though.
But, you can always go back and use the better lines etc. later.
Anyway, I am glad you like the system! My thanks to my son
John Jr. (banshee) for all of his R&D on this system!
-------------
dieselcrazy:

Yes, the Holley Blue Pump is used in conjunction with the stock
lift pumps on the 2nd or 3rd Generation Trucks to keep the
fuel pressure up at acceptable levels. On the 2nd Generation
Trucks it needs to be at or above 8lbs. and NEVER below 5.
The new 03'-04' Third Generation CR Dodge CTD's need to have
"positive" pressure at all times, in other words above "0lbs"
so you are not in "vacuum." The cost of the pump is around
$120.00 (Holley Blue) and about $90.00-$95.00 for the Holley
Red Pump. If you run all stainless steel braided line with the
Aeroquip Fittings that will run between $150.00-$200.00.
I am currently running a Holley Red Pump (97GPH @ 7psi)
on my 2002 Dodge CTD and I have around 22-23lbs. at idle
and NEVER get below 13-14 at WOT! I really like the Holley
Fuel Pumps and feel that for the money the work very well!

----------
John_P

 

John,

How many miles do you have on the Holley Red Pump? Just wondering about the reliability.

 

Bob:

I have between 15,000-20,000 miles on the Holley Red Pump
right now. So far, so good. I can tell you that we have some
friends of ours who have used them for two (2) years with no
problems at all. Both my son and I fell "victim" to the "hype"
on the Product Engineering PE 4200 Pumps over the last two
years and NONE OF THEM lasted either of us for more than
three months!! And they cost about $300.00 each!! I like
the idea that you can go any "Advanced Auto Parts" store in
the U.S. and they usually keep them "in stock." You certainly
can't do that with the PE Pumps or the newer FASS Systems.
One last thing,.......if you install one keep your stock Dodge
lift pump "in conjunction" with the Holley. That is good
"insurance" if for some reason the Holley Pump were to
quit.

Hope this has helped you some.

----------
John_P

 

Personally I am no engineer but ny gut feeling is that the lift pump prenise is lacking. Of all the things that should be made available to an engine it is fuel and when you think about a diesel and having to use vacuum to pull fuel forward and up to a resevoir. I wonder why they just didn't put an in-tank pusher fuel pump like I had on my Dakota? Anyway for about 125.00 I have what, I hope, I need. A pressure guage this weekend will tell me.

John - I wonder where the corrosion is? I can understand dissimilar metals of aluminum/brass from pump to fitting reacting but this type of union is made in several areas of and engine (although are usually problematic at some point). What I like about my way (Frank Sanatra)is I didn't need to cut the hard line and the rubber is available for replacement by itself w/o having to but a whole line the way Chrysler likes to make you do..

I must say to one and all a point I forgot. Removing the original connector from the lift pump was extremely hard to do and had me using language I did not know was in my vocabulary. Anyway the little Cummins "adapter" cable will show you you need to depress the tab and pull but the connector was in the lift pump and did not want to leave it's happy place.

Good luck to all on this much needed upgrade and thanks again John_P for this idea. It was cheap and as you say reliable (or I WILL find you).

Howard

 

This sounds like a mod I am very interested in. Is there a written set of instructions. I think I would use the braided fuel line. I sthere a list of the fittings I need to purchase to prevent unplanned trips for parts. This is the only vehicle I have so If I split the system open and need more parts I am in trouble.
TIA
Jason

 

Howard:

You asked about the corrosion on that mans truck I saw
from Colorado. There was corrosion on the electrical contacts
on his Carter 4600 (which BTW had failed). He also had
corrosion on the galvanized "barbed fuel connectors" he
had used to push the rubber fuel line onto. Anywhere there
was a connector, he had corrosion. And I mean MAJOR type
corrosion, corrosion like you will see on a battery terminal!!
There is a common "misconception" that metals like
stainless steel or aluminum will not corrode or discolor.
That is just not true. You should see some of the exhaust
systems (stainless or aluminized) that I have seen on trucks
that have run up north in heavy winter salt, snow sand etc.
Many of them look terrible! Unlike you, I personally think
the stainless steel braided line is the ONLY way to go for
that reason. That was why I recommended it to you and
to alot of other DTR Members. But as the saying goes;
"you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him
drink!" I see your point about not cutting the fuel
line but IMO, that does not bother me in the least because
as I told you on the phone, just keep the "cut-out section"
and if needed you can re-attach it later with a short piece
of rubber fuel line.

One last thing,.......I wanted to make a comment on the last
statement in your post;........."It was cheap and as you (me,
John_P) say reliable (or I WILL find you). I am assuming
you are just kidding around Howard, but if you do happen
to have any problems I will definitely be ready for YOU!!!
And BTW,....we can do it in the sand, on the asphalt, or
concrete as it makes no difference to me!!

-----------
John_P

 

Hey John_P - I meant the sissy fuel system Chrysler is kind enough to supply us with if fixed with the Holley pump which is inexpensive. As you said at one point there is any number of ways to wire and plumb a pusher pump. I especially like your idea about adding the little harness-w-the trigger wire soldered onto the DKBLU/YL "+" wire. One reason is that if you turn on the ignition the pump(s) will run for a short time but cut off if the ECM does not get a signal that the truck was started. This is a whole lot better than just wiring it to an ACC circuit which will make the pump run the entire time the key is turned. When we get together again I think you will see how simple the setup I used was from a plumbing standpoint. I am really hoping to get to Jacksonville Dragway soon so if you or other CTD owners are planning a trip let me know. I have a feeling I will be buying a new trans after I run it cause-w-the VA box it really takes off and I doubt D&E will rebuild mine.
As for my flippant "I will find you" remark all I meant was I'll see your truck one day and slap a "Hillary in 2008" bumper sticker on it. But remember that's only if my pump goes bad so why worry?

For those wanting a very complete list John_P was kind anough to give me this list which I orderred from Summit (get the relay and pump from Advanced Auto or one of the similar mass marketing auto supply stores):

(2) #6 to 3/8" NPT adapters part # AER-FCM 2005
(3) #6 straight fittings part # AER-FCM 1012
(2) #6 Compression Fittings part #RUS-639210
(1) 45 degree #6 elbow part # AER-FCM 4022
10' of #6 braided stainless steel line part#RUS 632070
Cummins Wiring harness #4025182
Summit will "suggest" their own part numbers for their AN fitting which is what I ended up getting and they look fine and were much cheaper in price.
1-800-230-3030.

Again I did not use this to plumb my setup although I honestly feel it would be a better/bullet proof way to go. I will do my best to get a shot of my setup soon and post it. Unfortunately I spent about an hour under my truck last night adding the Mopar running boards. They are really nice and very well engineered IMO however require 24 1/2 holes for mounting which are not fun to do w/o a lift. I did finally break down and buy a QUALITY step drill bit and would have paid $100.00 for it considering the time and effort it saved. With a 90 degree air drill there was a lot of flying red hot chips and they were not easy to dodge.

 

Well just for my thoughts.

With my experience with Holley pumps, I wouldn't put one on anything that I was worried about having reliable. Unless the pump is some how protected from the elements, I have had a number fail. I have had way better luck with Carter pumps, not one failure, go figure.

 

I have debated the pumps several times in regards to reliability and pressures.

Heres what my experience was...

Carter pusher at the tank...all failed within a few thousand miles. This was in the two pump configuration...never inderstood how one could match or balance fuel flow and pressure adding another pump. One will more often then not become a restriction.

Holley Black at the stock position...2 failed and never showed psi over 8 at idle. Perhaps defective.

PE pump...low pressure right from the start...sent it out for repair...no different...it was mounted on the frame below drivers seat, dry weather. Took it off. Real nice fancy finish. LOL

Holley Blue at the stock position...last I heard its still working fine. Had 50,000 kilometers on it with close to 500 HP all that time.

I researched a lot of fittings and pumps. I looked carefully at the inner diameter of all fittings and hose. Tried to match the ID of the hardline all the way through. The Weber carb fittings were too small of an ID for me. We made our own fittings to replace the banjos and connect the hydraulic fittings with the -8 braided teflon hose.

Doing a similar kit for the 3rd gens.

Something on the 3rd gens...at WOT on level 6 on an EZ, stumble stumble low low fuel pressure. Oh well. I like bathing in #2.



Scotty

 

Mopar_Mudder and Scotty:

You guys sound like you have had similar experiences with
the fuel pumps that both my son and I have had. Mopar, sorry
the Holley Pumps did not work good for you. I have heard
that from other DTR and TDR Members as well. Your point
about the weather (water and dirt) I think is true to a point.
I also hear about good reliability with the Carter pumps,
but as recently as last week a Dodge CTD owner was at
Scheid Diesel (Effingham, Ill.) with one that had failed
after about six (6) months. I have said for a long time
now that I just don't understand why SOMEBODY can't
make a good reliable fuel pump for our diesel trucks that
is well priced that we could all buy!!! As most of you
know the PE Pumps left both my son and I "on the side
of the road" after failing. IMO the Holleys and Carters
are good cheap, reliable pumps that when used in
conjunction with the stock lift pump and bigger banjo
bolts and fuel lines give you a pretty reliable system.

For now I am going to give this Holley Red a good run!
It has already lasted me a month longer than either of
the PE 4200 pumps did!! Even if it only goes a year I
feel I will have done better,........and heck,......if it fails
I will put one of those Carters on Mopar!!!

Good luck to you guys!

----------
John_P

 

Yep they can send a man to the moon but can't build a good fuel pump, go figure

I suppose a guy could go to the F.A.S.S system but they are just a tad spendy.

The problem I had with the Holleys is the fact that the motor unit is no sealed at all. On my off-road (gas) truck they would get water and junk in the motor and it would rust and lock solid. Took them apart and had to clean them a few times on the trail, not a fun thing. The Carter atleast has a sealed motor, and so far after about 5 years it just keeps going, it is no a high milage truck being it is a week end toy, but it has 1/2" supply and return so that pump has pumped alot of fuel.

Now thay I said that it will crap out on the first outing of the year we have in a couple of weeks

As for my Diesel I have just the stock pump and with the EZ and not fuel pressure problems, just under 40,000 miles. So far so good.