deere nut

"I spoke to Banks today, they are now shipping the 6 gun for the 600CTD. I'm wondering what system is best now that there are more options available for this motor. Any ideas/ recommendations?"


fltfndr - Did they tell you what the hp/torque fifures for the 600 with six gun are? Surely you asked befor buying it.

fltfndr

I haven't squeezed the trigger on a box just yet. I wish I would have asked about the numbers to be gained but did not, I am still comparing. I downloaded the installation manual for the Six Gun and after looking that over I may want to continue searching as I'd like something I can easily un-install for trips back to the dealer (leave no trace!)

el jefe

Here's a question, is there a chip out there that can be removed and the truck taken directly to a dealership that would leave no trace? When I had my clutch replaced in May for the rattle TSB, I took my EZ off about two weeks before my appointment and I feel that if they had checked for the presence of a chip and found traces/codes that they would not have covered it under warranty. Whether they checked or not I dodn't know, I would think so with the presence of gauges and exhaust.

Ramasaur

el jefe,
You answer your question, NO there isn't a box made that is undectable because once the dealership hooks into the PCM, they can tell you everything from the amount of time you idle, what your average speed is in every gear, lbs of boost, fuel pressure.... you name it....they will know. I only know this because my dealer in texas, hook my truck up while it was stock and told me how fast I drive! ???? Only be a few years before cops just hook into your truck to verify how fast you were going.

You take your chances with aftermarket anything!

SuperGewl

Here's and update for the Six Gun & the Pyro's.
I just got the exhaust manifold pyro installed yesterday. Boy what a differenc in response between the two. The Post Turbo one comes up slow and goes down slow but the Pre-Turbo one comes up quick and goes down quick. I have seen as much as 500 degrees difference between the 2 gauges.
I was using 300 degrees on the Post Turbo Pyro for shutting down. This I will still do because it allows the Turbo to cool off more. The Pre-Turbo Pyro comes down real fast and could actually allow the turbo to still be HOT.
Just an update will give a towing next week

Car_nut57

We have the Banks Six-Gun for your 2004 and the new 2004.5 trucks. The 03 and 04 trucks use one part number while the 2004.5 uses another part number.

Hounddog

I talked to Banks the other day.You all may need to call and ask the same question BUT I was told the OTHER boxes leave SKIP marks in the PCM that can be detected on a download.Maybe it takes a hook up directly to D.C.to read the download.Thats the way it use to work a few years ago.Was TOLD by BANKS theirs leaves NO FOOTPRINT.No skips that can be detected.I was at a DEALER today and the SERVICE WRITER I shoot the bull with said THEY just had NEW info come down from D.C.on WHAT TO LOOK for to see if a BOX had been installed a least a VISUAL INSPECTION etc.So THEY are looking! I LIKE BANKS products and used and sold them in the past.You will find FOLKS that never have used them and FLAME them BAD.Yes their pricy but I think you get what you pay for.The six gun from what I've read DOES not THROW codes and SERVICE lights.And DOES make good power as SOME claim it DOES NOT.If IT does NOT leave skip marks that can be detected thats another PLUS.

SoCal-305

I'm considering Banks even moreso now, and I somewhat believe it's a good product with its recent upgrade. However, I probably won't go for it until they publicly show the increases of the Six Gun and Speed Loader on a 305HO and/or the "600". Their "fluffed up" advertising approach with the CA-235 installation isn't enough proof for me that's it's going to do the same to my truck. And really, the market share for CA-235 has to be a minority compared to the other Cummins HPCR tune levels!

deere nut

B]"I'm considering Banks even moreso now, and I somewhat believe it's a good product with its recent upgrade. However, I probably won't go for it until they publicly show the increases of the Six Gun and Speed Loader on a 305HO and/or the "600". Their "fluffed up" advertising approach with the CA-235 installation isn't enough proof for me that's it's going to do the same to my truck. And really, the market share for CA-235 has to be a minority compared to the other Cummins HPCR tune levels"[/B]

I agree with you. I was told by a Banks rep. that its the same for the HO. Yeah right. I have ben trying to get a dyno for an HO form ANYONE for months and still have not been able to find one. Some people love it and some are not as impressed as they thought they would be. Until I see a dyno on an HO truck they can keep there six gun.

I e-mailed Tony Woods again today and asked him what the HP/torque figures are for the cummins 600 six gun they just released. I'll post what he responds with. I'll bet money that he dodges the question again. Still can not believe they don't adress the HO trucks on their site.

Barry Smith

Go to TST Products.com and look at the dyno graph for all their boxes.

onesloryd

I received an email from Banks yesterday and they are claiming +112hp and 257 lb-ft. torque. I am waiting to see the HP and Torque curves. As a side note, my friend just had their complete Power Pack install on his Excursion and he is very impressed and pleased with the increase of Hp and Torque

PeterT

For those that have been waiting for Six-Gun data on the 305 and the 325, I believe that I can shed a little light on the situation. There have been a couple of twists in the way that we have gathered the data with the new calibration. Traditionally we have presented data that is acquired via load dyno testing. That means that the engine is brought to full throttle, load is placed on the rear wheels such that a specific RPM is attained for a specified period of time to ensure stability, then readings are taken. The first data that we published from testing on the 235 was gathered in that fashion.

But many people use acceleration dynos or on-board acceleration analyzers to test their vehicles. Acceleration tests, while being a viable means of comparison testing, only really give you peak horsepower information. If that is all that you are looking for in a back-to-back comparison, then acceleration testing is worth using. Shortly after we released the first version of the Six-Gun, some people expressed a desire for more aggressive acceleration characteristics. We did some tweaking and tuning and came up with a new calibration for all the horsepower ratings.

The new calibration in the highest settings cannot easily be tested on a load dyno because the stock transmission will slip under full load conditions. This means two things: The Six-Gun set at its highest levels is not recommended for use while towing, and the easiest way to present the horsepower data is with an acceleration test. The stock transmission functions nicely under light truck drag race conditions and during acceleration dyno tests.

Here is some info that we gathered from acceleration tests that you may find interesting:

Test vehicle: 2003 3500 235 HP automatic, 2wd, dually

Peak HP, Acceleration test
Stock: 170.5 HP
Banks Six-Gun (L6 w/ Speed-Loader): 287.1 HP (+116.6)
Edge EZ (highest settings): 264.7 HP (+94.2)
Bullydog Torque Dog (highest settings): 272.3 HP (+101.8)

0-60 MPH
Stock: 15.04 sec
Banks Six-Gun (L6 w/ Speed-Loader): 9.25 sec
Edge EZ (highest settings): 10.37 sec
Bullydog Torque Dog (highest settings): 9.98 sec

¼ Mile
Stock: 20.86 sec @ 70.4 MPH
Banks Six-Gun (L6 w/ Speed-Loader): 17.38 sec @ 81.2 MPH
Edge EZ (highest settings): 17.98 sec @ 78.3 MPH
Bullydog Torque Dog (highest settings): 17.73 sec @ 80.1 MPH

Peak EGT (observed on ¼ mile run)
Stock: 1180 degrees
Banks: 1310 degrees
Edge: 1368 degrees
Bullydog: 1415 degrees


Test vehicle: 2003 3500 305 HP automatic, 2wd, dually
(Note: This truck was equipped with a Banks Monster Exhaust, BigHead Actuator and a Ram-Air filter for all tests)

Peak HP, Acceleration test
Stock: 218.6 HP
Banks Six-Gun (L6 w/ Speed-Loader): 306.5 HP (+87.9)
Edge EZ (highest settings): 292.5 HP (+73.9)
Bullydog Torque Dog (highest settings): 299.9 HP (+81.3)

0-60 MPH
Stock: 10.18 sec
Banks Six-Gun (L6 w/ Speed-Loader): 8.00 sec
Edge EZ (highest settings): 8.35 sec
Bullydog Torque Dog (highest settings): 8.16 sec

¼ Mile
Stock: 17.82 sec @ 80.6 MPH
Banks Six-Gun (L6 w/ Speed-Loader): 16.19 sec @ 90.2 MPH
Edge EZ (highest settings): 16.48 sec @ 87.9 MPH
Bullydog Torque Dog (highest settings): 16.32 sec @ 89.6 MPH

Peak EGT (observed on ¼ mile run)
Stock: 1113 degrees
Banks: 1231 degrees
Edge: 1341 degrees
Bullydog: 1364 degrees

Test vehicle: 2004.5 2500 325/600 automatic, 4wd, single rear wheel
(Note: Since Edge and Bullydog products for the Cummins 600 were unavailable at the time of this test, only Stock and Banks are shown. ¼ mile and 0-60 runs were made in 4wd for consistency.)

Peak HP, Acceleration test
Stock: 230.0 HP
Banks Six-Gun (L6 w/ Speed-Loader): 326.8 HP (+96.8)

0-60 MPH
Stock: 9.76 sec
Banks Six-Gun (L6 w/ Speed-Loader): 7.68 sec

¼ Mile
Stock: 17.70 sec @ 82.2 MPH
Banks Six-Gun (L6 w/ Speed-Loader): 16.00 sec @ 91.5 MPH

Peak EGT (observed on ¼ mile run)
Stock: 1263 degrees
Banks: 1358 degrees

Peter Treydte
Director or Technical Communications
Banks Power

SoCal-305

A hush falls over the crowd......

Thanks Peter for providing this information. Looks believable from my limited knowledge of things. Interestingly, the 600 motor benefits more than the 555 powerwise, my guess would be the timing component helps more on the 600.

Do you happen to have ony torque values as well? Even better would be a dyno plot but from what you said, I don't think you have that yet. The reason why I personally ask is I'm debating Banks vs. Volumizer vs. VA C3.1. I have dyno plots for the latter two and would like to compare the shape, not the absolute numbers, to the Bank Six Gun w/ the Speed Loader.

PeterT

SoCal-305,
The increase in improvement for the 325/600 actually is a result of a higher fuel pressure threshold for that engine. The fuel system can sustain roughly 10% more pressure because it has a different pressure relief valve than the 235, 250 and 305.

When you have horsepower data and RPM data, you can always calculate torque, but torque data in acceleration tests is always skewed in my opinion, because the engine is never at a steady RPM, and it will transition through the torque peak pretty rapidly. If the data that you have is from acceleration tests, then we can make a fairly valid comparison to some data that I have. I would be happy to share it with you off-site, but I would also be interested in seeing the data that you have. I can look at the data and do some math to confirm that the torque curves are accurate (I have seen some published data that is B.S…. it’s really pretty easy to check). E-mail me at ptreydte@bankspower.com and we can exchange information.

PT

SoCal-305

Hmmm....

Does that mean all of us with the 555 motors have been unnecessarily paranoid about running pressure boxes since the 600 motor is IMO basically the same system save for the injectors and relief valve. I have even read about a 600 motor running up to 32Kpsi!

Anyways, here's my Volumizer dyno data source:
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...threadid=42035

VA C3.1 dyno data:
http://www.nwbombers.com/membersites...C3_L1_dyno.gif

Feel free to take a look-see and I'll try to follow up with you next week. Thanks.