Which Oil?
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Kingston Ontario
Which Oil?
I have been using Valvoline Premium Blue for my oil changes - the oil that comes in the 6.7 from Cummins.
Its about 3 to 4x more expensive that Shell or Chevron (Delro 400???) and it is formulated for CJ-4 where the others see to be for everything, making me wonder is the Valvoline isn't better?
What are you guys using?
Its about 3 to 4x more expensive that Shell or Chevron (Delro 400???) and it is formulated for CJ-4 where the others see to be for everything, making me wonder is the Valvoline isn't better?
What are you guys using?
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 192
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From: Kingston Ontario
Hey JamieC!
Where did you buy your truck and where are you having it serviced? The two dealers here in Kingston are a little "weak"when it comes to deisel service. I have been going to Kingston Truck Centre.
I have been buying my Valvoline at Flying J or Napa buts its like 27.00 for the 5 litre jug!
Where did you buy your truck and where are you having it serviced? The two dealers here in Kingston are a little "weak"when it comes to deisel service. I have been going to Kingston Truck Centre.
I have been buying my Valvoline at Flying J or Napa buts its like 27.00 for the 5 litre jug!
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The parts guy told me that he is supposed to try to sell me the Mopar stuff, but that the Delo 400 is probably better as long as it is the CJ-4 and not the older stuff. I would just go out and buy a case of that for $58... oh wait... I did 
The oil filters are the same P/N as the 5.9's too, right?
The oil filters are the same P/N as the 5.9's too, right?
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Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Canyon Country, Ca
I went to Wal Mart today and they had Mobil 1 in gallon jugs for $22 each. My question is that it's 5W-40, but it says approved for all light duty engines, Power Stroke, Duramax, and Cummins. I was told 15-40. Can someone enlighten me please?
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From: Franktown, CO
Guys-I don't want to start a big arguement over oil as there are many people who are very passionate over a particular brand of oil. But, I personally know several engineers that actually work for the companies that make motor oil, and the story they give me privately is exactly the same as the info on Blackstone's website (pasted below) and that is: If you buy oil that has the proper ratings for your engine (eg-CJ4 & 15W/40), it really doesn't matter what brand you buy, they are virtually all identical. They are all made from the same base stock, there are only minor variations in the type of additives they add. Even if you buy the Walmart brand, it is virtually impossible to distinguish that oil from the most expensive brand you can buy, when testing it in the lab. The major difference is the color of the bottle and the amount of markup you pay!
So, if you want to pay $50 a gallon for oil, and you want to change it every 3,000 miles under normal use, go ahead no harm done. But it really isn't neccessary and you arent really increasing the life expectancy of your engine. What will make a big difference is if you add a bypass oil filtration system to your rig. Here is the info from the Blackstone website, enjoy:
Which Oil to Use?
Managers and analysts at Blackstone Laboratories often do presentations regarding the fascinating world of oil analysis. Regardless of the immediate topic, the most common question we hear is, "What type of oil should I use in my car?"
Because we're an independent laboratory, we don't recommend any specific oil brands. We always recommend using an oil grade recommended for your engine by the manufacturer and a brand that fits your budget.
You can go into any mass retailer (Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Meijer, etc.) that sells engine oil and buy a 10W/30 (or any other preferred grade) that will perform well in your engine. One of the best-kept secrets of the oil industry is that these store brands are actually the same, quality oils that are produced by the major oil companies. The only difference between these products and the major company brands is the name on the container and about 50¢ a quart.
By-Pass Oil Filtration
We receive many oil samples from clients who don't understand what is required to run unusually long oil use intervals in their engines. The accumulation of wear metals, blow-by materials, and oil oxidation products in their oils is alarming. It has been our experience one cannot simply add oil of a particular brand or base stock and expect it will be useful for an extended period of time, lubricating, cleaning, and cooling as required. Oils that become contaminated need to be changed promptly. In our opinion, there are no magic oils or additives.
There are, however, auxiliary systems you can add to your engine's lubricating system that will keep the oil clean enough to use over an extended period of time. By-pass filtration units are the most common system used for this purpose.
In-line oil filtration, which comes installed on your engine from the factory, filters oil entering the engine down to roughly 30-40 microns (millionths of a meter). This is about as finely as in-line filtration can filter, because when the oil is cold or the filter is partially plugged, a finer filter would cause too great a pressure drop, forcing open the filter by-pass valve and allowing unfiltered oil to circulate through the engine.
By-pass filtration works differently. When this type of auxiliary system is installed, some of the sump oil by -passes the in-line filter system, passing continually though a by-pass filter and then returning to the oil sump . Using this method, sump oil is constantly being cleaned any time the engine is running, and it can be filtered down to a very fine size. All you have to do to maintain the system is occasionally change the by-pass filter.
Not only do the by-pass filtration units cleanse the sump oil of blow-by and oxidation products, they also reduce wear metals and silicon accumulations, both of which are abrasive. Oil does not wear out. Its usefulness is limited by contamination. By-pass filtration removes most of the contaminates.
How long can an oil fill be run using by-pass filtration? We've heard claims of large (Class 8) diesels going 1 ,000,000 miles on the same fill of oil with no harm done to the engines. We have analyzed oils which have been in service 240,000 miles and found nothing unusual in the analysis, other than higher than average iron and lead (from steel parts and bearings), and these wear accumulations were not intolerably high.
After having run many tens of thousands of diesel engine oil samples, it is our opinion that a by-pass oil filtration system is one of the most important factors in extending oil drains. If you are interested in extended oil drains, we suggest you investigate adding this type of system to your engine
Most of us have only a vague understanding of viscosity. We tend to choose an oil with a viscosity that we believe is correct for our particular engine, but would another viscosity improve or reduce the life of the engine? Can we freely pick and choose a viscosity outside a manufacturer's recommendations?
Technically, viscosity is defined as resistance to flow. Commonly though, we think of it as an oil's thickness. To be more specific, it is the thickness of an oil at a given temperature. The plot thickens (pun intended).
The viscosity of an oil could be reported at any temperature, but to standardize things, most laboratories report either a low temp (100F or 40C) or a high temp (210F or 100C) and stick with either Fahrenheit or Celsius. The standardized temperature reading allows us to compare apples to apples for judging the thickness of the oil. At Blackstone, we report the viscosity at 210F.
An apple is an apple, no matter what language you use to describe it. In the same respect, there are many ways to describe viscosity: SAE Engine, SUS (Seybolt Universal Seconds), cSt (Centistokes), ISO grade, etc. We use SUS. No matter what you call it, the number given simply defines the thickness of the oil at the standard high temperature.
Straight Weight vs. Multi-Grade
Engine oils can be either a straight weight or a multi-grade viscosity. Originally, all oils were straight weights. Relatively few straight weights are manufactured today since most gas- or diesel-engine manufacturers recommend multi-grades. At operating temperature, a straight weight performs just as well as a multi -viscosity oil, and there is nothing wrong with using a straight weight. It's just a simpler form of oil. Some diesel fleets still use straight weights, as do about half the piston aircraft operators.
The difference between multi-grades and straight-weight oils is simply the addition of a viscosity improving (VI) additive. The most common grade of automotive oil in use today is the 5W/30, which is a mineral oil refined to the SAE 5 weight viscosity range containing the usual cleaning and anti-wear additives, then blended with a VI additive that should leave it reading in the SAE 30 weight range when at the higher (210F) temperature. The advantage to the multi-weight is, when starting the engine, the multi-viscosity oil has the thickness of an SAE 5 weight, which allows the engine to spin over more easily.
The most common diesel use oil is 15W/40. It is an SAE 15 weight oil with a VI additive that leaves it the thickness of an SAE 40 weight at operating temperature. What makes an oil a diesel-use oil (rather than automotive-use) is the level of additives used. Diesels require heavier levels of dispersant and anti-wear additives. These heavier additive levels are objectionable for automotive engines since they may interfere with the emission controls mandated by the EPA.
Which Viscosity to Use?
Engine owners often stray from manufacturers' recommendations regarding viscosity of oils. The engine builders dyno-test their engines using a specific viscosity oil, so when you use the viscosity they recommend, you are working with a known result. Going to another viscosity is an experiment, but it's usually a harmless one. For the sake of efficiency you want to run the lightest grade oil in your engine possible, within limits. We are seeing that trend for newer engines, for which the recommended grade is getting progressively lighter. The common 10W/30 has become a 5W/30, and some manufacturers even recommend 5W/20 oil. On the other hand, we can't see (in oil analysis) where it hurts anything to run heavier 10W/30s or even 10W/40s in modern automotive engines. The heavier oils provide more bearing film, and that's important at the lower end. If your oil is too light, the bearing metals can increase. If the oil is too heavy, the upper end metals can increase. The trick is to find the right viscosity for your particular engine, which is why we suggest following the manufacturer's recommendation.
Changes in Viscosity
Adding anything foreign to your oil can change its viscosity. Some types of after-market oil additives cause a quite high viscosity at operating temperature. While an additive might improve bearing wear, it can often cause poorer upper-end wear. We don't recommend any type of after-market additives.
So, if you want to pay $50 a gallon for oil, and you want to change it every 3,000 miles under normal use, go ahead no harm done. But it really isn't neccessary and you arent really increasing the life expectancy of your engine. What will make a big difference is if you add a bypass oil filtration system to your rig. Here is the info from the Blackstone website, enjoy:
Which Oil to Use?
Managers and analysts at Blackstone Laboratories often do presentations regarding the fascinating world of oil analysis. Regardless of the immediate topic, the most common question we hear is, "What type of oil should I use in my car?"
Because we're an independent laboratory, we don't recommend any specific oil brands. We always recommend using an oil grade recommended for your engine by the manufacturer and a brand that fits your budget.
You can go into any mass retailer (Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Meijer, etc.) that sells engine oil and buy a 10W/30 (or any other preferred grade) that will perform well in your engine. One of the best-kept secrets of the oil industry is that these store brands are actually the same, quality oils that are produced by the major oil companies. The only difference between these products and the major company brands is the name on the container and about 50¢ a quart.
By-Pass Oil Filtration
We receive many oil samples from clients who don't understand what is required to run unusually long oil use intervals in their engines. The accumulation of wear metals, blow-by materials, and oil oxidation products in their oils is alarming. It has been our experience one cannot simply add oil of a particular brand or base stock and expect it will be useful for an extended period of time, lubricating, cleaning, and cooling as required. Oils that become contaminated need to be changed promptly. In our opinion, there are no magic oils or additives.
There are, however, auxiliary systems you can add to your engine's lubricating system that will keep the oil clean enough to use over an extended period of time. By-pass filtration units are the most common system used for this purpose.
In-line oil filtration, which comes installed on your engine from the factory, filters oil entering the engine down to roughly 30-40 microns (millionths of a meter). This is about as finely as in-line filtration can filter, because when the oil is cold or the filter is partially plugged, a finer filter would cause too great a pressure drop, forcing open the filter by-pass valve and allowing unfiltered oil to circulate through the engine.
By-pass filtration works differently. When this type of auxiliary system is installed, some of the sump oil by -passes the in-line filter system, passing continually though a by-pass filter and then returning to the oil sump . Using this method, sump oil is constantly being cleaned any time the engine is running, and it can be filtered down to a very fine size. All you have to do to maintain the system is occasionally change the by-pass filter.
Not only do the by-pass filtration units cleanse the sump oil of blow-by and oxidation products, they also reduce wear metals and silicon accumulations, both of which are abrasive. Oil does not wear out. Its usefulness is limited by contamination. By-pass filtration removes most of the contaminates.
How long can an oil fill be run using by-pass filtration? We've heard claims of large (Class 8) diesels going 1 ,000,000 miles on the same fill of oil with no harm done to the engines. We have analyzed oils which have been in service 240,000 miles and found nothing unusual in the analysis, other than higher than average iron and lead (from steel parts and bearings), and these wear accumulations were not intolerably high.
After having run many tens of thousands of diesel engine oil samples, it is our opinion that a by-pass oil filtration system is one of the most important factors in extending oil drains. If you are interested in extended oil drains, we suggest you investigate adding this type of system to your engine
Most of us have only a vague understanding of viscosity. We tend to choose an oil with a viscosity that we believe is correct for our particular engine, but would another viscosity improve or reduce the life of the engine? Can we freely pick and choose a viscosity outside a manufacturer's recommendations?
Technically, viscosity is defined as resistance to flow. Commonly though, we think of it as an oil's thickness. To be more specific, it is the thickness of an oil at a given temperature. The plot thickens (pun intended).
The viscosity of an oil could be reported at any temperature, but to standardize things, most laboratories report either a low temp (100F or 40C) or a high temp (210F or 100C) and stick with either Fahrenheit or Celsius. The standardized temperature reading allows us to compare apples to apples for judging the thickness of the oil. At Blackstone, we report the viscosity at 210F.
An apple is an apple, no matter what language you use to describe it. In the same respect, there are many ways to describe viscosity: SAE Engine, SUS (Seybolt Universal Seconds), cSt (Centistokes), ISO grade, etc. We use SUS. No matter what you call it, the number given simply defines the thickness of the oil at the standard high temperature.
Straight Weight vs. Multi-Grade
Engine oils can be either a straight weight or a multi-grade viscosity. Originally, all oils were straight weights. Relatively few straight weights are manufactured today since most gas- or diesel-engine manufacturers recommend multi-grades. At operating temperature, a straight weight performs just as well as a multi -viscosity oil, and there is nothing wrong with using a straight weight. It's just a simpler form of oil. Some diesel fleets still use straight weights, as do about half the piston aircraft operators.
The difference between multi-grades and straight-weight oils is simply the addition of a viscosity improving (VI) additive. The most common grade of automotive oil in use today is the 5W/30, which is a mineral oil refined to the SAE 5 weight viscosity range containing the usual cleaning and anti-wear additives, then blended with a VI additive that should leave it reading in the SAE 30 weight range when at the higher (210F) temperature. The advantage to the multi-weight is, when starting the engine, the multi-viscosity oil has the thickness of an SAE 5 weight, which allows the engine to spin over more easily.
The most common diesel use oil is 15W/40. It is an SAE 15 weight oil with a VI additive that leaves it the thickness of an SAE 40 weight at operating temperature. What makes an oil a diesel-use oil (rather than automotive-use) is the level of additives used. Diesels require heavier levels of dispersant and anti-wear additives. These heavier additive levels are objectionable for automotive engines since they may interfere with the emission controls mandated by the EPA.
Which Viscosity to Use?
Engine owners often stray from manufacturers' recommendations regarding viscosity of oils. The engine builders dyno-test their engines using a specific viscosity oil, so when you use the viscosity they recommend, you are working with a known result. Going to another viscosity is an experiment, but it's usually a harmless one. For the sake of efficiency you want to run the lightest grade oil in your engine possible, within limits. We are seeing that trend for newer engines, for which the recommended grade is getting progressively lighter. The common 10W/30 has become a 5W/30, and some manufacturers even recommend 5W/20 oil. On the other hand, we can't see (in oil analysis) where it hurts anything to run heavier 10W/30s or even 10W/40s in modern automotive engines. The heavier oils provide more bearing film, and that's important at the lower end. If your oil is too light, the bearing metals can increase. If the oil is too heavy, the upper end metals can increase. The trick is to find the right viscosity for your particular engine, which is why we suggest following the manufacturer's recommendation.
Changes in Viscosity
Adding anything foreign to your oil can change its viscosity. Some types of after-market oil additives cause a quite high viscosity at operating temperature. While an additive might improve bearing wear, it can often cause poorer upper-end wear. We don't recommend any type of after-market additives.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 77
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From: Mississippi
oil
I think MtnTrucker said it best.
All oils with the weight and API Service rateing for your vehicle will be good.
I use Shell RotellaT, not that is the best but is easier to find in more places than some of the others. JMHO
All oils with the weight and API Service rateing for your vehicle will be good.
I use Shell RotellaT, not that is the best but is easier to find in more places than some of the others. JMHO
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 520
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From: Sask, Canada
Here's how it breaks down:
5w40
5 = viscosity when oil is at 100*F - it "acts" the same as an SAE 5 oil, good for quick flow at low temps, viscosity is measured in cSt (centistokes).
w = "winter" rated
40 = viscosity when oil is at 212*F - it "acts" like an SAE 40 oil, good protection at high temps.
The difference between a 15w40 and a 5w40 is how they flow when cold. There are NO disadvantages to using a 5w40 oil as opposed to a 15w40 oil.
Just as more Cliffy Clavin type info
, the only way to manufacture a 5w40 oil (35 numbers between hot and cold viscosity) is for it to be at least a semi-synthetic, almost always 100% synthetic.I run a 0w40 CI-4 oil in my Cummins in the Canadian winters. When up to temp, it's the same "thickness"/viscosity as Rotella 15w40 for example.
Do some reading over at the forums at bobistheoilguy.com to read more than you've ever wanted to know about oil.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: trenton, ont. canada
Hey JamieC!
Where did you buy your truck and where are you having it serviced? The two dealers here in Kingston are a little "weak"when it comes to deisel service. I have been going to Kingston Truck Centre.
I have been buying my Valvoline at Flying J or Napa buts its like 27.00 for the 5 litre jug!
Where did you buy your truck and where are you having it serviced? The two dealers here in Kingston are a little "weak"when it comes to deisel service. I have been going to Kingston Truck Centre.
I have been buying my Valvoline at Flying J or Napa buts its like 27.00 for the 5 litre jug!
I haven't had any real problems with the truck so it hasn't really been to the dealer other than a flash and to enable the high idle. I only have 17000 kms now so I would hope for no major probs yet.
By the way I picked up my oil from Belleville Truck Center as all the new big trucks run cj-4 oil.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 46
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From: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
I want to switch to Rotella T synthetic. Went to Canadian Tire/PartSource today and they only had Rotella T Triple protection (not what I want) and Rotella T SB 0W40 100% Synthetic. I have a couple of questions:
1) Firstly, the Shell website doesn't even list Rotella T SB 0W40 100% Synthetic. The site only has Rotella 5W40 Synthetic and T SB (Synth Blend). Further, the back of the bottle doesn't list CJ, CI-4 Plus or CI-4. Is this a Canadian? version of the same oil? Does it meet the required standard? It was in the automotive diesel vehicle section, but that doesn't really mean anything.
2) If this is not the case does anyone know where I can find the Rotella T 5W40 Synthetic in the Kingston, Ontario area?
Thanks in advance for your help.
1) Firstly, the Shell website doesn't even list Rotella T SB 0W40 100% Synthetic. The site only has Rotella 5W40 Synthetic and T SB (Synth Blend). Further, the back of the bottle doesn't list CJ, CI-4 Plus or CI-4. Is this a Canadian? version of the same oil? Does it meet the required standard? It was in the automotive diesel vehicle section, but that doesn't really mean anything.
2) If this is not the case does anyone know where I can find the Rotella T 5W40 Synthetic in the Kingston, Ontario area?
Thanks in advance for your help.