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Dealer says I have a cracked DPF... (sry long)

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Old 09-11-2014, 02:27 PM   #1
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Dealer says I have a cracked DPF... (sry long)

Hi all! 2 week lurker ... 1st time poster!


So... I am looking at a $3800.00 repair bill from the dealer. Talked to a few other repair shops and most don't want anything to do with it. And yes... there is always the option to put on a delete kit, but I have emissions and for me to pass, I got to get the DPF fixed.


Forgot: 2008 Ram 6.7l diesel (manual tran)
Added:
So the truck is a high mileage truck: 244000+ miles. It was a service rig that was probably running close to 10,000lbs with the service bed on it. 5000 mile services with a "if its broke fix it mentality". I purchased it from the company I work for.

Backing up before the CEL came on... I took my truck out for a bit of a drive. 30 miles county roads avg 45-65mph. I turned onto one road and moderately accelerated and noticed a puff of black smoke. About 2 miles later the CEL came on with no message on the overhead. Truck was still running fine with no power loss and no noticeable puffs of black smoke. Continued to use the truck as planned. I figured that the CEL was a DPF issue. Before I could get it to the dealer, I took the truck camping... 3hr drive at 65mph pulling a 5000lb trailer. (LOL at me for SUCH a light load) Anyway, I figured that it would be the best thing to clean the DPF. As we ended the trip, the overhead stated it needed to regen and the DPF was 80% full. It continued to fill until the overhead said 100% and Reduced Power. But, I have no noticeable power loss. Anyway, I got the truck into the dealer. The dealer could not get the truck into a manual regen and determined that it was because the DPF was cracked. He said it was because the DPF was allowing the exhaust to bypass the filter and the air pressure sensor was not registering a big enough differential. HUH? I had the dealer put the truck back together and told them I'd bring it back when I could afford it.


So, I get the truck home and decide to do a bit of self investigate. Worst I can do is break an already cracked DPF right!? First thing I noticed, is that the DPF was never removed by the dealer. I'm still working on loosening some of the bolts.


My questions:
CEL light is on and Overhead says Exhaust filter is full / Reduced Power... Wouldn't the air pressure differential be high enough to trigger that?
Why no reduce power?


Would a manual regen need the air pressure sensors?


How would they determine a cracked DPF if they did not remove it and visually inspect it? Assuming the crack is on the inside.


It does not look to hard to replace the DPF, is this true? and if I do replace it, will it auto clear the CEL or will I have to find someone to do that? I tried a OBOII reader and it error'd on the comm and would not read the codes. I have access to a "better" one.


And YES... I am aware that I can do a DPF delete too.


All of the recalls have been applied to the truck... I think the latest was j35 in 2010.

Last edited by iGoThud; 09-11-2014 at 02:36 PM. Reason: adding information
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:55 PM   #2
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I assume you're over 80K for mileage? Otherwise it should be covered 8/80 as part of emissions.
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:09 PM   #3
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i would think there are a lot of dpfs laying around that may be for sale
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:11 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iGoThud View Post
Hi all! 2 week lurker ... 1st time poster!





So, I get the truck home and decide to do a bit of self investigate. Worst I can do is break an already cracked DPF right!? First thing I noticed, is that the DPF was never removed by the dealer. I'm still working on loosening some of the bolts.


My questions:
CEL light is on and Overhead says Exhaust filter is full / Reduced Power... Wouldn't the air pressure differential be high enough to trigger that?
Why no reduce power?


Would a manual regen need the air pressure sensors?


How would they determine a cracked DPF if they did not remove it and visually inspect it? Assuming the crack is on the inside.


It does not look to hard to replace the DPF, is this true? and if I do replace it, will it auto clear the CEL or will I have to find someone to do that? I tried a OBOII reader and it error'd on the comm and would not read the codes. I have access to a "better" one.


And YES... I am aware that I can do a DPF delete too.


All of the recalls have been applied to the truck... I think the latest was j35 in 2010.
what is your location? i know of at least 2 that may be for sale
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Old 09-11-2014, 06:52 PM   #5
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So the truck is a high mileage truck: 244000+ miles. It was a service rig that was probably running close to 10,000lbs with the service bed on it. 5000 mile services with a "if its broke fix it mentality". I purchased it from the company I work for. So to answer a few questions and generate more:


Mileage: 244648
Last service: 240000-ish
Location: Boise Idaho
Black soot: What is considered normal vs excessive? Yes the inside of the pipe when wiped with your finger has soot, but nothing I would have considered excessive. But this is the newest truck that I have owned and the only thing I have to compare it to was a 93 Chevy 3500 Diesel. And while driving, I am not seeing plumes of black soot/smoke from the exhaust.
When the dealer had it, they only comments he had other than the DPF was that he recommended that the EGR be cleaned and a good thing was they did not see any problems or soot buildup in the turbo. And just FYI... I haven't driven it since I got it back from the dealer. Don't want to create anymore problems than I already have.
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iGoThud View Post
Hi all! 2 week lurker ... 1st time poster!


So... I am looking at a $3800.00 repair bill from the dealer. Talked to a few other repair shops and most don't want anything to do with it. And yes... there is always the option to put on a delete kit, but I have emissions and for me to pass, I got to get the DPF fixed.


Forgot: 2008 Ram 6.7l diesel (manual tran)

Backing up before the CEL came on... I took my truck out for a bit of a drive. 30 miles county roads avg 45-65mph. I turned onto one road and moderately accelerated and noticed a puff of black smoke. About 2 miles later the CEL came on with no message on the overhead. Truck was still running fine with no power loss and no noticeable puffs of black smoke. Continued to use the truck as planned. I figured that the CEL was a DPF issue. Before I could get it to the dealer, I took the truck camping... 3hr drive at 65mph pulling a 5000lb trailer. (LOL at me for SUCH a light load) Anyway, I figured that it would be the best thing to clean the DPF. As we ended the trip, the overhead stated it needed to regen and the DPF was 80% full. It continued to fill until the overhead said 100% and Reduced Power. But, I have no noticeable power loss. Anyway, I got the truck into the dealer. The dealer could not get the truck into a manual regen and determined that it was because the DPF was cracked. He said it was because the DPF was allowing the exhaust to bypass the filter and the air pressure sensor was not registering a big enough differential. HUH? I had the dealer put the truck back together and told them I'd bring it back when I could afford it.


So, I get the truck home and decide to do a bit of self investigate. Worst I can do is break an already cracked DPF right!? First thing I noticed, is that the DPF was never removed by the dealer. I'm still working on loosening some of the bolts.


My questions:
CEL light is on and Overhead says Exhaust filter is full / Reduced Power... Wouldn't the air pressure differential be high enough to trigger that?
Why no reduce power?
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]you're correct, the ecm uses the dpf pressure sensor to calculate the soot loading in the dpf and that number is used to activate the regen cycle and the ecm displays the calculated number in the % full messages.
You should be in active regen unless something is preventing it like a high exhaust temp code.
The reduced power varies with each vehicle. When I cracked mine I was still able to tow my 7k trailer on reduced power.[/COLOR]

Would a manual regen need the air pressure sensors?
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]yes it needs the calculation to start and end the active regen cycle.[/COLOR]

How would they determine a cracked DPF if they did not remove it and visually inspect it? Assuming the crack is on the inside.
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]as BigIron said, if you're puffing soot then its cracked, melted or both. BUT it should still regen and may be doing so but theres more soot being created than the regen can burn off. The problem lies where the root cause of the excessive soot formation is. [/COLOR]

It does not look to hard to replace the DPF, is this true? and if I do replace it, will it auto clear the CEL or will I have to find someone to do that? I tried a OBOII reader and it error'd on the comm and would not read the codes. I have access to a "better" one.
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]get the better one and pull the codes and post them here.[/COLOR]

And YES... I am aware that I can do a DPF delete too.


All of the recalls have been applied to the truck... I think the latest was j35 in 2010.
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]repeating what BI said, they have to find the cause before they replace the dpf. Basically anything that can change the air/fuel ratio can cause more soot to be created. From my personal experience (2X) and my reading I would look at the egr valve first. They have a habit of sticking open due to getting plugged up with soot. From there it can be a dirty air cleaner, boost leaks, sensor failures or high temp readings readings, turbo, leaking injectors etc.

Like I said above, pull the codes and don't worry about the cracked dpf for now. I put thousands of miles on mine before I threatended the dealer with legal action and they replaced it under my emissions warranty. Worry about fixing the root cause and getting it to regen.[/COLOR]

NOTE: I answered a bunch of your questions in the quoted text above and in color but the color didn't work so read through it for the info.

And a little light reading: http://www.dodgeownerforums.com/smf/...;topic=13534.0
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:03 PM   #7
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So I did the key dance...
Got ------
5 beeps
and then -Done-


The one reader display ERR


Pulled the Battery and repeat of the above and got the same results... Makes me wonder Tech did say he couldn't get a Manual Regen to start... Possible PCM problems?


Calling my buddy to get the better reader.


oh and a pic of my tail pipe!
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Dealer says I have a cracked DPF... (sry long)-img_1451.jpg  
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Old 09-11-2014, 11:09 PM   #8
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One thing to check is the obdII connector pins. Make sure none of them are bent.
If the good code reader gives you an error then its possible you've got an ecm problem but that's one heck of a coincidence.
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Old 09-12-2014, 07:50 AM   #9
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I thought the DPF's on all the Dodge CTD CR (Emissions Trucks) from 2008-PRESENT had a "lifetime" service on them??? It is part of the emissions system and I am pretty sure that is 7 years/100,000 miles.

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Old 09-12-2014, 10:40 AM   #10
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They're covered under the emissions warranty for mileage and years.
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Old 09-12-2014, 02:34 PM   #11
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Ended up going to a Autozone...

He got 2 codes:
P200C - DPF Overtemp Bank 1
P242F - DPF Ash Accumulation

Found my paper work from when I took it to the dealer and they stated that they found 4 code but they did not list them out.
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Old 09-12-2014, 06:36 PM   #12
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Yep its melted/cracked. You probably had a P1451 code and who knows about the other. You could call the dealership and they can look at their record and tell you.

From the link I posted above:
Both the P242F and the P200C DTC’s will suspend the current Desoot event. Once the exhaust temperatures go down, the truck can usually perform a successful Desoot on the next drive cycle as long as the exhaust pressures do not exceed a predetermined mark.

So it should regen for you if you take it easy on the pedal to keep the pressures down. BUT you have to find the cause first or it will continue to fill with soot faster than it can burn it off. The dealer gave you a hint with cleaning the egr valve. Do that (instructions are on Geno's site on the egr cleaning kit page) and then verify it isn't sticking and is fully seated closed. Reinstall it, clear the codes and see if it will regen.

I would consider unplugging it from now on to keep it from failing again. You'll have a cel for it but it won't hurt anything and you can plug it back in a few days before smog testing and it takes about 5-8 drive cycles to clear the cel.
I've been like this for 2 years now and one smog check.

And there should be no soot in the tail pipe at all. Being cracked it probably won't fail the smog test especially if you do the obd test with no snap test.
If it regens I would leave it alone unless you fail the test. Replace it then if you have to.
Also, when is the last time you changed your air filter.
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Old 09-12-2014, 11:40 PM   #13
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Thanks to xcc_rider and everyone else!


As for the air filter... Last time it was replace was probably around 5000 miles ago. Truck was regularly maintained and recently had a bunch of work done to it. I know it has a new clutch and the injectors were replaced. Personally, from what I have learned over the past week, I really feel that the DPF is at a "mileage" age that it just needs to be replaced. Remember the trucks got 244800 miles on it. I think I read in that light read you suggested, that the DPF is more of a "when it will need replaced" and not an "if it will need to be replaced"


I was reading up on the EGR Valve clean and already read through Geno's guide... Seems simple enough. Probably start that tomorrow. Geno uses Simple Green (assuming the Degreaser). Is there a preference? Should I track down the Mopar EGR cleaner?


Clarification on 2 points:


"...Reinstall it, clear the codes and see if it will regen."
Will the regen only take place after I clear the codes?


"I would consider unplugging it from now on..."
Your talking about the DPF right?


Again... Thanks for the time and assistance!
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Old 09-13-2014, 10:55 AM   #14
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I recommended clearing the codes prior to driving it based on my own experience. I had the same exact problem on vacation towing my 7k trailer across the desert with my wife, grandkid and dog. Limped it into the next town that had a campground and dropped them all off. I drove 50 miles to another (larger) town and it didn't regen. I found a laid off Ford diesel mechanic and he recommended clearing the codes and seeing if it would regen. He said they used that trick on the Fords and it may work, otherwise I was looking at a 250 mile tow to get it fixed. He cleared the codes for me (at no cost, great guy) and I started driving back to the campground. Within 10-15 miles the overhead message changed to 90% then 80% on down until it said regen complete and worked fine for the remainder of my 600 mile trip.

So try it and see if it works for you. I've made the same recommendation to many others and it seems to have a 60-70% success rate. If it doesn't work then the dealer will have to force a regen and clear whatever it is in the ecm that is keeping it from regen'ing.

I was talking about unplugging the egr valve actuator to make sure you don't have it fail on you again. I had 2 fail on me with the first one causing my vacation adventure. The second I caught sooner and although I had problems nothing was damaged. Dealer replaced it and it was unplugged as soon as I got home.
Read more here: http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/6-...egr-recap.html

As far as the dpf you have gotten you use out of it. The expected lifetime was around 150k miles but there's many that have much more mileage on one than you do.
As a dpf ages it accumulates more and more ash from the burned soot. The signs of an "end of life" dpf are high dp readings and frequent regens. This is a slow process not the quick problem you had.


Using Simple Green is what I'd use to clean the egr. After cleaning make sure it moves freely and closes completely. If you plan on staying stock you should make plans in the future to clean the egr cooler and your map sensor. Both of these get carbon fouling also. The egr valve and cooler cleaning is supposed to be done every 67,500 miles alon with changing the ccv filter. So if you have access to the maintenance history I would check and see when these were performed last.

Personally I would try and get it to regen and forget about it. I ran mine cracked for 2 months and probably 2k miles before I convinced the dealership (threatened legal action) to replace it. In all that time the system worked as designed with the exception of the soot in the tailpipe (and a few clouds of soot when rice burner would challenge me at a stoplight).
You can pick up a used-good condition dpf and hang onto it until the day it no longer works or you fail the smog test (if dpf related). I would be cautious about replacing the dpf until the cause of the event is found and corrected.

I've got another write up on the dpf and how regens work if you're interested. Let me know if you want it and I'll post it here. Its great reading if you can't fall asleep...
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Old 09-13-2014, 03:56 PM   #15
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I up for a good read... I like arming myself with lots of information. Helps me, when I take it to someone I don't know.


I think my first investment will be a code reader that works. I work with computers and did all the extra cooling an overclocking. What I found was it took a lot of time and a lot of $ to keep on top of it. I really don't have any plans to go much past stock. Might be interested in a something that will tell me the exhaust temps and regens.
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