Mike Holmen

Are they gonna fix the stuck injector issue that been killing 3gen CTD engines? I heard three engine die this week due to a bad injector. Makes me nervious about buy a 45k truck then spending another 20k to fix a dead engine just cause I put in a speed part.

Luke S

The 6.7 are not finicky in the fuel department. As long as you only run the new ULSD fuel you'll be fine, and that is all that has been being sold in the US since October 15th of 2006. Many of the pumps have the old stickers on them still, but the fuel coming out of them has been ULSD since october. The problem in farm country(where I am at) is the off-road(aka farm fuel) non-taxed fuel is still and will continue to be the old low sulfur fuel and not the new ultra low sulfur fuel. See, this is a way the government can finally put an end to farmers and ranchers running off-road fuel on-road.

Your salesman at Dave Smith doesn't have a clue. The new 6.7 can run on up to 5% Bio-diesel, but it is surely not required!

John_P

Mike:

Good point on the injectors in the 3rd Gen engines. They have had a fair amount of failures with them out here where we are too. I realize that the engines have to meet the federal emissions laws etc. but I am not convinced
that the engines are getting any better in terms of reliability. I know that my old 96' 12 valve went way over 200,000 miles before I decided to rebuild to a high performance type engine. Everything but the batteries on that engine were all original including the water pump, alternator, A/C, fuel system etc. and the stock injectors went to 100,000 before I changed them out to put in 370's. The truck never left me on the side of the road.

Now, fast forward to my 2002 Dodge CTD 24 valve. Five (5) lift pumps, one VP-44 and it left me on the side of the road three times in three and half years! I sold it and bought my 2006 and so far, so good. But, as everyone has pointed out here (which I agree with) as owners of these CR trucks we all better be darn careful with the types of fuel we put in these trucks! And as another member also pointed out, the 2007 6.7 Engines are said to be only compatible fuel wise with the 15PPM fuel! My problem with that is, I travel ALOT and "what if" you get in an area that doesn't have the 15PPM ULSD fuel yet or says it does but what's in the ground tanks is 500 PPM fuel! IMO, it will take awhile for ALL the fuel stations in the U.S. to be updated with this new fuel. I have run some pretty nasty diesel fuel in my old 12 valve over the years, not always by choice but by where I was, and it never has faltered!
I got the "water in fuel" light a few times and once had to clean out some pretty bad looking "black tar type" gunk out of the fuel heater strainer and the fuel filter, but the truck kept going. I am not trying to scare anybody, but these are things all CR owners (especially 6.7 owners) should think about.

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John_P

Pile Buck

Thanks for the reply Luke! Good to get the straight skinny!

Yeah I don’t know about that Dave Smith, big reputation here in the North West, but in 2000 they tired to pull a fast one on my wife. I was working in California; she wanted a Durango real bad. Dave Smith was low bidder, but just before she got on the airplane, the salesman pulled the ol “Bait & Switch” . Lost the sale over that little trick!

Luke S

Mike, I have seen a lot of injector problems in the nature that they pop open too soon at too low a pressure, but we have not seen any that were stuck open. I have not had any HPCR cummins engine's "die" because of an injector problem. They may have a long crank time problem, or they may get diesel in the oil, ususally both, but this is always the result of the injectors poping open too soon at too low a pressure. And truthfully the only ones that we put injectors in are the trucks that don't get their fuel/water serperators changed at the right intervals or get contaminated fuel. I got one guy who is real picky about his maintenence. He comes in every 5,000 miles and gets hsi oil changed and has us replace his fuel/water seperator and air filter every 5,000 also. I know this is excessive, but he has 130k on an 04' and it has all 6 of it's original injectors.

As far as your warranty, Dodge is pretty clear on that. If you hop your truck up with performance parts, it is not their problem. It is your choice. They warranty it the way they built it, if you change it that is not their problem. Is a couple extra ponies worth the worries? To me it's not. We pull heavier than most anybody, and our trucks are all stock, they get serviced by the book right here in our own service department, and they don't give us any trouble. A truck to me is not a toy, it is not what I use to comute, we use them for our business and our farm and we want them to be right and don't want to worry about Dodge coming out and snooping around cause we are running warranty on our own trucks all the time.

That is my opinion, for what it's worth to you.

John_P

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This is exactly what I was talking about. Luke, my concern on your point is this; even if the so called "sticker" on the fuel pump says (ULSD 15PPM) an owner has no real way of knowing whether that fuel is REALLY ULSD 15PPM like the sticker says. FWIW, the Department of Agriculture did some random testing here about a month ago and found several stations that had the 15 PPM stickers but in actuality the fuel was still 500 PPM!! Yes, they were fined, shut down etc., but what if some poor unsuspecting new 6.7 cab and chassis owner just filled his tank up with that fuel?? And the "rural area/farm country" thing you mentioned is another concern. I am just not convinced that in some parts of this country that the 15 PPM fuel is what will actually be in those underground tanks. I hope for the owners of these trucks it is, but I think we will see some problems in the future. Just my opinion.........

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John_P

Luke S

John, everybody is running 15PPM no matter what the sticker says. That is all the refineries have been producing since october 15th 2006, with the exception of off-road fuel.

John_P

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Luke, no disrespect to you, but how do you explain them finding the 500 PPM fuel in an underground tank that was "stickered" and said to be 15 PPM fuel??
Leftover 500 PPM fuel??? The so-called "experts" on this subject have said in many articles over the last year that the pipelines, tanks and all supply systems have to be cleaned out to not have a "mixture" of 15 PPM and 500 PPM fuel together. It is my understanding that if 500 PPM fuel is still in the tank, the extra sulfur in that fuel will be picked up by the lower 15PPM fuel.
There was a very good article on this in the most recent TDR Magazine. Personally, unless some of these gas stations are "tested" by the USDA or each states agency for that purpose you, myself, nor any of the DTR members here can positively know that that fuel in the ground is 15 PPM
unless it is tested. That is what I am trying to point out here. Just because it says 15 PPM doesn't mean it is and the stations here that were caught are proof that it can happen Luke.

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John_P

Luke S

You are probably right, I'm sure some place some where has some of it still. And I know the mixing is going on. Our local station got its first load about oct 20th and I filled two 6.7's up the next day. I know for a fact that there was still some 500ppm in the tanks, but we had to have fuel. So we did it, and no ill affects. These trucks will not self destruct if you get a mixture or even straight 500ppm. As EB290 has stated he got some 500ppm and the truck just goes into the burn mode more often. In another month or three this really shouldn't be much of a problem, we use so much diesel in this country that all systems really should be flushed out plenty good by then in my opinion. I don't know, I've been running 6.7's all over and haven't seen any problems, maybe I am lucky?

bigsnakebud

people
I believe that(ulsd) is the reason you are seeing injector problems in the 04.5 and up the injectors were not designed to be run with such low lubricant. Not that the earlier Cummings are either but they have more miles and do not use 20,000 lb fuel pressure which splits the injector and it then leaks into the oil return cavity which then fills the oil pan displacing the 10w40 and makes it 2w2 and this coats the underside of the truck with a combination of fuel/oil and of course wipes the ceramic bearings in the turbo. The dealer is instructed to look for ANY changes from stock AND check the fuel filter so that DCX might get out of a warranty situation. The point here being is that the 6.7 is designed to run on unleaded the people who bought the 5.9 HO just got caught in the oil company's/EPA excuse to raise diesel from 1/2 gas to 1/2 more than regular. Sweet hea
Fred

eb290

I have run over 15,000 miles now and have run only 8 tanks of ULSD in my truck. It is unavailable in my area, the closest I have found is 87 miles away. It has not caused any problems with my truck that I am aware of other than going into the "burn mode or active regeneration mode" more often than it probably would if I could use only ULSD. I really don't think it will harm the engine at all, it might cause the particulate filter to fill up quicker than normal, what ever normal is, but I don't know.

I bought one of the first cab and chassis and put it to work before anyone else that I know of. I probably drive more miles pulling a trailer than most on this board, so I should be the first to find out what running LSD will do to the engine and emissions system. If my particulate filter fills up after 50,000 miles and it is supposed to go for 250,000 miles, then I am going to go after Dodge if they won't warranty it. The way I look at it is, you shouldn't sell something if the fuel that is legally supposed to be used in it is not available. Luke, do you have an opinion on that? I'll understand if you don't want to answer that on the open board.

Luke S

Yes I do. I think you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. The "G" said the manufacturers had to be able to meet the new standards by 1-1-07. They did. Now fuel is not available everyhwere apparently? Whose fault is it? The manufacturers for doing what they were told? Or the "G" for not getting the fuel manufacturers and distributors lined out ahead of time?

eb290

So I guess I'm hung if I have problems with the particulate filter down the line. I'm hopeing the fuel is actually closer to 15 parts than 500 parts, but doing what I do, there really isn't much I can do about it.

Along the same line, I found an article in Truckers News about the ULSD. It is fairly long, but it is very informative if anyone wants to spend the time to read it. Here is the link http://www.etrucker.com/apps/news/article.asp?id=57192

It talks about the fuel, lubricity, TBN and many other things.

CMC

Latest edition of Diesel power magazine previews the newest diesels from the big 3. Good article on the CTD. They did a 1,000 mile road test and the best milage they got was 11mpg from the 6.7. Thats scary!!

John_P

CMC:

You are right, that issue of "Diesel Power" did a great job on coverage of the new trucks/engines! I also agree with you that the mileage with that new 6.7was pretty bad! And I know that with the new owners of the Dodge CTD CR 6.7 that "results may vary on mileage" but all I can say is "I am really glad I bought the 2006 5.9 Cummins Truck/Engine!"

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John_P