I even asked the service center before I installed the Banks & they said it was ok to do so. It has never been a problem with the other less expensive warrantied items. District manager didn't look at the truck & they didn't do any tests on the truck. He called the service manager on the phone & cancelled the warrany just because the box was there.

 

I don't know about other states but here in GA an individual is not required to disclose anything to a dealer. By law the dealers must disclose buy backs etc but individuals are protected from any type of disclosures other than odometer. Right or wrong, that is how it is here.

My Chrysler warranty, if it exists anymore, states the warranty is null and void for any type of performance enhancing equipment past or present, during my ownership or prior. I read that to mean if they could prove there was a box on the truck prior to me buying it and then an injector went well, I'd be up the creek.

 

Ah good old American BS'ing at its best. I do love the verbage that all the manufacturers put in their owners manuals, specifically the verbage about add on's. Here is the root of the problem, and, the feds actually gave us, the little guys, some teeth. Go to www.sema.org and read very carefully the Moss-Magnuson Act. For those of you who have forgotten, that document is designed to protect the public from unscrupilous(sp?) dealer and manufacturer practices with regard to aftermarket, non-oem parts. Example, and this is pretty obvious, you take your truck in with some sort of electrical problem. Dealer looks at your truck and says. Oh, you put on your own running boards. That caused the problem, so no warranty for you! Now, I do realize that one is a bit far fetched, but, believe me, there are dealers out there that would and have tried to pull this kind of thing on the uneducated. I had a discussion with the local Ford dealer when the trans in my '05 PSD started acting up. Took it in, and right away, they called and said, hey, you have an aftermarket exhaust so this is causing the trans to slip due to excessive heat from the non heat shielded pipes on the truck. So I went back to the dealership meet with the service manager about this. Again, their position from the get go was very standoffish. I was nothing but nice, had them again explain in more detail their position and then I watched their eyes and jaws drop when I brought out my copy of Moss-Magnuson and said, "According to this federal piece of paper, you have to prove to me that my exhaust did in fact cause the failure of the part in question. So far all you have done is prove that you haven't even looked at the trans to see what exactly is wrong with it. Why don't we do that before making any harsh judgements?" Caught them off guard. So we all three stood there and watched as one of the techs did his diagnostics and came to the conclusion that there was a solenoid that was sticking. He replaced the solenoid, and the truck was back to shifting like it should. Bottom line? Fixed under warranty.

Sorry to be so long winded, but this topic comes up about every month or so and I get tired of seeing "Oh tough luck dude. Shouldn't have put that on your truck then." Nice attitude to show towards your fellow owners. I'm not saying that to anyone specific, and you all know what I am talking about.

Bottom line:Firemanram do your homework at the SEMA site and if there is documented instances where this part is known to leak on a bone stock engine, as MikeyB suggests, than they have no choice other than to fix it, and they know it. They are hoping you will roll over and play dead. Don't do it.

Just my .0000000000000000002

T.

 

Firemanram, From what I've read the CP3 doesn't self destruct it just craps some seals and is easy to rebuild....If I were DC I think I'd want to look after you if they want your business again. Ask to speak with the district manager and ask for the statistics on CP3's being replaced as well as lift pumps. When talking with the district manager ask for his name and to draft you a letter on DC letter head with his name on it so that your lawyer will have the correct information. Industrial Injection is a Bosch service center....contact them and see if they can do the work for you if you aren't comfortable doing it yourself.....You still have the warranty on the rest of the truck. The Cummins part of the truck is the least likely to crap out at huge expense other than if injectors start to go south. The tranny warranty should be voided if you added a box....I accepted it as do most of the others on this site. If CP3 seal failures were a rarity then we would accept your warranty being voided but they are common even on stock motors. If your rail relief valve is in good shape they would have a hard time proving that the pressure produced by the Banks box caused any damage to the CP3. The willingness of dealers to stand up for you in warranty situations is depending on their wiseness on wanting your business again. If you asked the service department at the dealer about the box and they said it was ok then hold them to it. If you play you are your own warranty station, BUT if the problem is not caused by your bombing then being bullied by DC is just stupid. IF the dealer backs out and trys to bill you, pull the truck out and get a performance diesel shop to do the work correctly. I wouldn't let DC touch my engine or tranny even for an oil change. ks

 

I couldn't find the Magnuson Moss Act on the Sema site. Here it is for those who would like a direct link to it.
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=112&did=716
It would appear to me that the Magnuson Moss Act requires the manufacturer to put in writing the terms and conditions of the warranty as well as what will void the warranty. If it's stated in the vehicle's written warranty that modifying the vehicle for increased performance will void the warranty, I'd have to conclude that the manufacturer has fullfilled their legal requirement under the Magnuson Moss Act and are in their legal rights to void your warranty. The written warranty is a legally binding written promise between the manufacturer and the consumer.

 

My thought is, you play, you gots to pay... you put the box on your truck, that makes you your own warranty station.
Scott

 

But the burden of proof is still on DC. Cause if that was true, we would only be permitted to get parts and service at the dealerships. Cause almost all aftermarket air filters, spark plugs, spark plug wires, and even synthetic oils are advertised as adding performance. So they can't get out of the warranty by listing that performance mods void warranties in the owner's manual. And, the DC can't void your engine warranty anyway, they have to clear it through Cummins. And even if they can, there is no way under the law they can cancel the rest of the trucks warranty. Cause if you put a chip in and brought it in for an A/C problem or a broken seat slider or cracked rotors so to speak, the dealer would have a hard time proving that the "Chip" caused it.

Cause under some of the people's thinking here, if I bought a brand new truck today, then tomorrow I went and got better aftermarket tires of the same size, with nice rims, you would tell me the dealer could void my whole warranty, cause the tires could be listed as non factory and performance enhancing and I should just eat my lumps?

That is such BS!!! that it almost makes me sick to my stomach.

 

Well some of you guy are correct and some of you guys are wrong. Chrysler has printed in your service book that after market add ons will not nesscesarly void your warrenty unless they cause the fault at hand. But it also states that any add ons that effect emmisions and or performance of the vehicle by increasing horsepower or operating parameters etc may void the warrenty for that system. Ie a pressure box added, provides higher rail pressure thus if you had an injector leak they would not cover the injectors and due to higher fuel demand may void your whole fuel system warrenty. Also they may at the descretion of the Area rep upon evaluation void any warrenty that may be effectd by your add on. Like the drive line do to increase of power. YOU HAVE NO FOOT TO STAND ON.

Things such as air cleaner assy and exhaust as long as it does not effect the emmisions (sound and pollutants) of the system. They are fine. But for example if you install an oil bath filter that does not filter down to the micron required then again they can and will void your enige warrenty.

It is a fine line as to what they can and will void.
For guys that are at the dealerships with their chips still installed when they hook you up to the diagnostic tool, guess what?? your operating parmeters are now changed and the computer can send them back to DC for anaylisis. Now they have a record of higher rail pressures and other spike curves caused by the chip. Just because you remove the chip doe not mean the history is gone either. Another false misconception.

Cummins DOES NOT control any warrety work for these trucks at all. DC does not need Cummins permission do do anything to these engines.
The magmosoum act is good as long as you can battle it out and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that your after market product did not cause the problem. Which is fine and dandy in the example given about the after market exhaust voiding the tranny warrenty. But how does one prove it when an injector fails after you installed a chip that rasies fuel pressure more then factory settings. Hard. real hard to do.

One thing I would do is sit down and talk to your dealership about the cause and effect of the part that is broken. See if therer are any TSB and or recalls for the part in question. If there is ask for a copy of them to see if this is the problem that you have exaclty. At least then you have a foot to stand on. Another thing you can do is Call DC help line your self and get copies of the TSb's mailed to you for that particuler system.
I bet most here that have added chips, intakes and other performance enhancing products are lucky. Because they have either a good dealership whom understands what the part does. Or they know where the problems lie with the trucks and therefor will cover things that are generally broken or worn out. While others have gotton the Warrenty void and lost as to what to do.
I recommend that everyone reads their warrenty books, then read their service book, then go to the Dodge website and read about theri policy on aftermarket parts. Then deceide if you were wronged or righted. After all this show the delaership this info and watch them quiver.

thats all I have to say for now.

Cheers

 

I betcha if you traded it on a new one they voided warrranty would all of a sudden be back in force
Just my 2 cents

 

Cmullen, if that was the case their would be alot of people doing that. I am kind of curious of what all they really look for when you take it to them. I wonder how bad they really nit pick things.Just curious that's all.Cin

 

sad to say, i belive Banks was instrumental in the drafting of the moss-mag. act as well as i remember.

 

Obvious things dealerships may look for are the velcro tape that is used to secure most tuners to the air box etc. Gauges, some dealers will look at witness marks on the electricle connectors. If they are broken then possibly something has been added and removed. For further inspection they can use the the scan tool for abnormal fuel pressure curves or timing. Usually though that info will be picked up by Tech line when they investigate a suspicion of a box and carry out an investigation. Hope that helps out a bit.

 

This coversation reminds me of a Drunk driving ticket battle. Were you drinking? Why yes, but only had one... wasn't trying to hurt anyone minding my own business. But our test shows you had more than one, in fact over the limit... etc etc.

I think you can contest this up to a reasonable limit.
If that fails you can only take responsibility for it.
That would be the right thing to do.

I am not judging this too much, because I have made some mistakes too, but it is a classic American past time trying to get out from under the consequences of our actions.


Jimmy

 

the local techs could not even use the DRB to troubleshoot my ECM, with BullyDog calling and telling them how too.

the Techs and Svc Mgr's are lot dumber than you guys are giving them credit for.

the deal is you have to educate them, take in a copy of the MM Act,
explain to them how THEIR process works,

and then, get a Lemon Law Lawyer. he rings their bell.

I put up with this crap on a GM truck that i drag raced against a Tech at the dealership, they canx'ed my warranty.

knowledge of the legal stipulations of the various documents needs to be brought to their attention politely.

for you guys screaming "you pay, you play"....that's a broken record, so don't play it when your crap breaks.

FWIW, i would go talk to the General Manager of the Dealer, and ask him how cancelling and refunding your extended warranty (his Cash Cow) affects his profits.

the Svc Mgr often thinks he is a "Demi God" who acts without impunity back there, till the GM does a calibration on who signs who's paycheck, and what the bottom line is, the bottom line is they want to sell more extended warranties.

you might discuss with the GM the legal ramifications of the MM Act on his dealership refusing to perform service IAW industry guidelines, and how that will look in a courtroom.

 

I think DC should cover all warranty claims regardless of any modifacations made. I am 100% sure that all truck owners doing these mods are completly professional mechanics and there is no way the mods could be responsible for any of the problems. Furthermore, even with these mods, I'm sure nobody is demanding more out of their truck than what it is design for. Besides, what do engineers know anyway, right? DC should just do the repairs and just tack on additional money for all vehicles sold so we can all split the cost of these "warranty" claims. The warranty is for the truck you bought, not the one you turned it into. Understandably this should not apply to unrelated items that have failures. Why do so many mod their trucks (when they don't need it) and then act so suprised when they are denied warranty work? Just the fact that everyone says "make sure you take off the mods before service" is admitting that they know their in the wrong. If any mods are done, even if they are purchased at a dealer, GET IT IN WRITING that the warranty is not affected whatsoever.


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