More 6.7L/68ref info............
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 0
Then there is the fact that the left over 5.9's are gonna be a grand or two cheaper to start with. I got about 10 or 12 left, and I am not losing any sleep wondering who I am gonna sell them to.
Chapter President
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,562
Likes: 0
From: Tupelo, MS
So my next question goes to your buisness minded side:
Do you see any prob in the lag time between the two models? What if the production snags and you don't have any to sell, cause the previous inventory has dries up and the new one's haven't shipped yet? DC is well known for this as I have seen it with there Jeep products.
Do you see any prob in the lag time between the two models? What if the production snags and you don't have any to sell, cause the previous inventory has dries up and the new one's haven't shipped yet? DC is well known for this as I have seen it with there Jeep products.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
From: OKC, OK
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
From: St. Louis Metro Area, MO
You guys are complaining about higher prices? Sheesh - I went out a priced a freakin Chevy Tahoe with just the 5.3 Vortec V8 for the Wife, and it came to just under $50 THOUSAND DOLLARS !!!
For a TAHOE??? OMG - for that I could get a MegaCab Laramie 3500 SRW with the 6.7 and 68RFE and still have change left over!!!
EDIT:
OOPS - so I just went out to edmunds.com and it looks like I was wrong (yes - I can admit that). So I probably wouldn't have any change left over, but I could probably get it for about the same price... Or really close to it. And I guarantee which one I'd rather drive, and I'm pretty sure it would out-tow a Tahoe :-) and get better mileage. Also - have you seen how LOW the air dams are on the 'new generation' Chevy's? I think I'd scrape the driveway on even the 4WD models...
For a TAHOE??? OMG - for that I could get a MegaCab Laramie 3500 SRW with the 6.7 and 68RFE and still have change left over!!!
EDIT:
OOPS - so I just went out to edmunds.com and it looks like I was wrong (yes - I can admit that). So I probably wouldn't have any change left over, but I could probably get it for about the same price... Or really close to it. And I guarantee which one I'd rather drive, and I'm pretty sure it would out-tow a Tahoe :-) and get better mileage. Also - have you seen how LOW the air dams are on the 'new generation' Chevy's? I think I'd scrape the driveway on even the 4WD models...
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,902
Likes: 5
From: Claxton, GA
Is the 4500 going to be a pickup or cab and chassis?
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 0
So my next question goes to your buisness minded side:
Do you see any prob in the lag time between the two models? What if the production snags and you don't have any to sell, cause the previous inventory has dries up and the new one's haven't shipped yet? DC is well known for this as I have seen it with there Jeep products.
Do you see any prob in the lag time between the two models? What if the production snags and you don't have any to sell, cause the previous inventory has dries up and the new one's haven't shipped yet? DC is well known for this as I have seen it with there Jeep products.
I don't think we are gonna see much of a problem. The stock of 5.9's on the ground right now is pretty high, and sales are less than great. If a guy is looking for a strange configuration, or a really hard to find option, he may have a wait, but if your not too picky, you should be able to find a truck.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 0
Not many details on these trucks yet, but everything I have seen to date says cab & chassis only. I doubt they will get into that F450/4500 pickup niche as Ford is doing. It is such a small piece of the market that it would be hard to justify. I really don't think Ford is going to sell that many of them. Maybe a couple, but Dodges idea has been lately, that instead of having a dog in every fight and lose money (fords plan), maybe it's better to not try to make every thing under the sun and turn a profit.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: VA
Due to stricter federally-mandated diesel emissions standards for the entire industry starting in calendar year 2007, a new engine was developed with Cummins. This new 6.7L engine is based on the proven DNA of the current 5.9L diesel, complies with the new regulations, and even complies with updated rules scheduled to be implemented in 2010.
The required changes to the engine and exhaust to meet these stringent government standards result in significantly higher costs
to build the HD Ram. For that extra cost, this new, high tech diesel system will provide state of the art benefits to the customer including:
-Increased power, torque and fuel economy
-Significantly cleaner engine with B5 biodiesel compatibility
-50% quieter engine and a more refined interior environment
-50 states emission certification
-Only diesel to also meet the 2010 emissions requirement
6.7L Diesel Features
Some of the features of the new 6.7L Cummins turbo-diesel include:
-Electronically controlled Variable Geometry Turbo. This is a modern feature that
enhance drivability and refinement by:
-Precisely matching boost pressure with the engine’s needs
-Reducing emissions
-Creating a quiet and lag free throttle response
-Increasing altitude capability
-Providing exhaust brake capability
The Cummins diesel on the Dodge Ram has always been an industry leader, and as you can see, this improved version is no exception!
We have raised the bar again in the HD pick-up segment with the 6.7L, providing world class power and refinement.
New 6 Speed Automatic Transmission
In addition to the new diesel engine, we are launching a new, refined, 6-speed automatic transmission for the diesel application. This is
something that you and your customers have been asking for and with this new powertrain system, we have delivered. Benefits include:
-6 speeds (68RFE) vs. 4 on the 48RE
Note: 68RFE is a lower cost alternative to the 6-speed Aisin currently
in the 3500 chassis cab.
-GCWR increase from 23,000 lbs. to 24,000 lbs.
24,000 lbs. is “Best in Class” vs. Ford 350 and GM/Chevy 3500 at 23,500 lbs.
Applies to all 3500, 4X4, 6.7L, 68RFE, with a 4.10 rear axle
-Optimal fuel economy and performance
-Electronic Range Select
-Enables customer to select gears that match driving conditions
-Provides greater control in unique driving conditions such as towing
heavy loads on severe inclines
-Superior launch capability (we have the best torque curve in the segment)
-Optimal shift quality, improved quietness and durability
END OF EXHIBIT I
The required changes to the engine and exhaust to meet these stringent government standards result in significantly higher costs
to build the HD Ram. For that extra cost, this new, high tech diesel system will provide state of the art benefits to the customer including:
-Increased power, torque and fuel economy
-Significantly cleaner engine with B5 biodiesel compatibility
-50% quieter engine and a more refined interior environment
-50 states emission certification
-Only diesel to also meet the 2010 emissions requirement
6.7L Diesel Features
Some of the features of the new 6.7L Cummins turbo-diesel include:
-Electronically controlled Variable Geometry Turbo. This is a modern feature that
enhance drivability and refinement by:
-Precisely matching boost pressure with the engine’s needs
-Reducing emissions
-Creating a quiet and lag free throttle response
-Increasing altitude capability
-Providing exhaust brake capability
The Cummins diesel on the Dodge Ram has always been an industry leader, and as you can see, this improved version is no exception!
We have raised the bar again in the HD pick-up segment with the 6.7L, providing world class power and refinement.
New 6 Speed Automatic Transmission
In addition to the new diesel engine, we are launching a new, refined, 6-speed automatic transmission for the diesel application. This is
something that you and your customers have been asking for and with this new powertrain system, we have delivered. Benefits include:
-6 speeds (68RFE) vs. 4 on the 48RE
Note: 68RFE is a lower cost alternative to the 6-speed Aisin currently
in the 3500 chassis cab.
-GCWR increase from 23,000 lbs. to 24,000 lbs.
24,000 lbs. is “Best in Class” vs. Ford 350 and GM/Chevy 3500 at 23,500 lbs.
Applies to all 3500, 4X4, 6.7L, 68RFE, with a 4.10 rear axle
-Optimal fuel economy and performance
-Electronic Range Select
-Enables customer to select gears that match driving conditions
-Provides greater control in unique driving conditions such as towing
heavy loads on severe inclines
-Superior launch capability (we have the best torque curve in the segment)
-Optimal shift quality, improved quietness and durability
END OF EXHIBIT I
First, thanks for all of the great info you share with us on DTR!
Just a few questions:
1. Since the 6.7 is good for the 2010 EPA regs, there shouldn't be any additional large scale changes at least through then right?
2. Is there any market info on the GM LMM or Ford 6.4 that states their only capable of meeting the current 2007 EPA requirements?
3. Can you explain increased altitude capability? Does this mean better bost at lower RPM ranges while at higher altitude?
4. Are there any future plans of offering the Aisin in the Pickup as an upsale item? From the statement above, it doesn't seem that Dodge has slammed the door shut on such an option!
5. Has Dodge released any typical dyno graphs of the 6.7?
I see that all of this adds up to a much superior platform over the Ford and GM trucks. If they truely don't have the 2010 requirements met with their newest technology engines, then they'll be hittin the drawing boards again pretty soon which for Ford at least will probably require another engine all together (by then navistar will probably be Volvo or Nissan or something anyway!)
What I have seen on the 6.4 shows that max torque isn't reached until 2000RPM's. The power band would have to be pretty narrow. I'd like to see a comparison of dyno's for the Cummins, Duramax and Powerstroke.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 0
Luke,
First, thanks for all of the great info you share with us on DTR!
Just a few questions:
1. Since the 6.7 is good for the 2010 EPA regs, there shouldn't be any additional large scale changes at least through then right?
2. Is there any market info on the GM LMM or Ford 6.4 that states their only capable of meeting the current 2007 EPA requirements?
3. Can you explain increased altitude capability? Does this mean better bost at lower RPM ranges while at higher altitude?
4. Are there any future plans of offering the Aisin in the Pickup as an upsale item? From the statement above, it doesn't seem that Dodge has slammed the door shut on such an option!
5. Has Dodge released any typical dyno graphs of the 6.7?
I see that all of this adds up to a much superior platform over the Ford and GM trucks. If they truely don't have the 2010 requirements met with their newest technology engines, then they'll be hittin the drawing boards again pretty soon which for Ford at least will probably require another engine all together (by then navistar will probably be Volvo or Nissan or something anyway!)
What I have seen on the 6.4 shows that max torque isn't reached until 2000RPM's. The power band would have to be pretty narrow. I'd like to see a comparison of dyno's for the Cummins, Duramax and Powerstroke.
First, thanks for all of the great info you share with us on DTR!
Just a few questions:
1. Since the 6.7 is good for the 2010 EPA regs, there shouldn't be any additional large scale changes at least through then right?
2. Is there any market info on the GM LMM or Ford 6.4 that states their only capable of meeting the current 2007 EPA requirements?
3. Can you explain increased altitude capability? Does this mean better bost at lower RPM ranges while at higher altitude?
4. Are there any future plans of offering the Aisin in the Pickup as an upsale item? From the statement above, it doesn't seem that Dodge has slammed the door shut on such an option!
5. Has Dodge released any typical dyno graphs of the 6.7?
I see that all of this adds up to a much superior platform over the Ford and GM trucks. If they truely don't have the 2010 requirements met with their newest technology engines, then they'll be hittin the drawing boards again pretty soon which for Ford at least will probably require another engine all together (by then navistar will probably be Volvo or Nissan or something anyway!)
What I have seen on the 6.4 shows that max torque isn't reached until 2000RPM's. The power band would have to be pretty narrow. I'd like to see a comparison of dyno's for the Cummins, Duramax and Powerstroke.
RC51, to answer your questions..................
1)The only changes I would expect to see out of this engine and drivetrain combo would be more power down the road, as you know the diesel power wars will never stop.
2)I have not seen any info as of yet that would help me answer that question, although we are a Chevrolet dealer also, I have not yet studied up on all of my LMM info yet.
3)Exactly what you said, better boost, at lower rpms. Less turbo lag, less effected by high altitudes.
4)I don't think you'll see the Aisin in the pick-ups as an option. Mainly it is too expensive. I think both the Aisin and the DC made 68rfe will be awesome, and as good or better than anything the compition has to offer, and we have a better engine hooked to the front!
5)I haven't seen any graphs. I think Dodge is touting best low end torque if memory serves. I think the Chevy is going to put out 5 or 10 more ft.lbs on paper, but the Cummins lays it out on a flatter torque curve. That is the big thing I have noticed about the cab & chassis I have been driving, flat torque curve, and they are only set at 305/610.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
My local dealers are completely out of 2500/3500's. They also have no idea when they will be getting the 07 2500/3500's. I am holding out for an 07' 6.7 2500, call me dumb, but I trust Dodge, Cummins, and Mercedes Benz engineering to get it right. I would like to test one, but can't find one...
Banned
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: kokomo, IN
RC51, to answer your questions..................
1)The only changes I would expect to see out of this engine and drivetrain combo would be more power down the road, as you know the diesel power wars will never stop.
2)I have not seen any info as of yet that would help me answer that question, although we are a Chevrolet dealer also, I have not yet studied up on all of my LMM info yet.
3)Exactly what you said, better boost, at lower rpms. Less turbo lag, less effected by high altitudes.
4)I don't think you'll see the Aisin in the pick-ups as an option. Mainly it is too expensive. I think both the Aisin and the DC made 68rfe will be awesome, and as good or better than anything the compition has to offer, and we have a better engine hooked to the front!
5)I haven't seen any graphs. I think Dodge is touting best low end torque if memory serves. I think the Chevy is going to put out 5 or 10 more ft.lbs on paper, but the Cummins lays it out on a flatter torque curve. That is the big thing I have noticed about the cab & chassis I have been driving, flat torque curve, and they are only set at 305/610.
1)The only changes I would expect to see out of this engine and drivetrain combo would be more power down the road, as you know the diesel power wars will never stop.
2)I have not seen any info as of yet that would help me answer that question, although we are a Chevrolet dealer also, I have not yet studied up on all of my LMM info yet.
3)Exactly what you said, better boost, at lower rpms. Less turbo lag, less effected by high altitudes.
4)I don't think you'll see the Aisin in the pick-ups as an option. Mainly it is too expensive. I think both the Aisin and the DC made 68rfe will be awesome, and as good or better than anything the compition has to offer, and we have a better engine hooked to the front!
5)I haven't seen any graphs. I think Dodge is touting best low end torque if memory serves. I think the Chevy is going to put out 5 or 10 more ft.lbs on paper, but the Cummins lays it out on a flatter torque curve. That is the big thing I have noticed about the cab & chassis I have been driving, flat torque curve, and they are only set at 305/610.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
If I remember correctly in December just before I ordered my 2004.5 (which was the changeover date for the new 325/600) my truck took a couple extra weeks to reach the rail hub where I picked it up. Because of some small difficulties in the changeover. DC is talking now about the delay of this new 6.7 in the pickup. Personally I think it will be March before any of us see one. I have driven a chassis/cab with 68re and I think it will revolutionize the pickup market. The fact that they only raised the GCVW by a 1000 pounds is disappointing. I hope the new 3500 dually has the multiple spring pack like the chassis/cab. The new frame/springs on the chassis/cab has all the makings for an upcoming 5500.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Prince George, B.C.
The real problem is the increased cost of ownership each time there is a redesign. Oil filters, fuel filters all start getting in the $25 to $40 range instead of $5.00 when I bought 1st gen in 1991. I used to feel sorry for Navistar owners that were paying $30 for fuel filter in 1996 when I was paying $11 for my Cummins "B" fuel filter. Also, Dodge has forced Cummins to restrict parts availability and increase prices progressively each year, such that prices are getting very close to Dodge dealer levels. Cummins is not even allowed to keep engine code reader for our new 3rd gen CPL now. I used to get trucker parts rates at Cummins parts in 1991 but Dodge or Cummins shut that down in about 1994. Now it is list price only.
The real annoyance is Dodge restricts licensing for ATF+4 to keep prices up (about 4 times as much as Dexron) yet that is all a Dodge tranny will use without taking risks on tranny damage. Beats me how this gets through anti-competition laws?
The real annoyance is Dodge restricts licensing for ATF+4 to keep prices up (about 4 times as much as Dexron) yet that is all a Dodge tranny will use without taking risks on tranny damage. Beats me how this gets through anti-competition laws?