Coolant Flush on a 3rd Gen.
01-20-2010, 07:13 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Coolant Flush on a 3rd Gen.
This is a pretty simple maintenance procedure, but I thought I would throw my .02 out here for everyone to read.
First off the service manual has the procedure, and it really is quite simple.
In addition to the coolant flush I changed the thermostat. That procedure can also be found in the service manual.
I started off by simply draining the OE fluid into a bucket. It was still very red, no oil, or any contaminates that I could see. There was a little bit of some contaminate the showed up on the 3rd flush in the radiator, but looked liked what I have seen in every cooling system. On my 2nd flush the coolant was much warmer and now had a small oil film on the top. But my buckets were new and I attribute that to the new plastic and warm water, something to consider if you find the same conditions when you flush your system.
Since it was in the 20's and snowing yesterday I knew I would have a hard time making the coolant warm enough to open the thermostat to get a good flush, and removing the thermostat would cause a leak so I modified my OE thermostat. A freind of mine calls this a "Hawaii T-Stat".
So I drained the block/radiator 5 times. This may seem excessive, but consider this. A drain only gets about 4-5 gallons out, and its a 7.4 gallon system. So I wanted to ensure that I had as much of the old coolant out as possible.
What I would do is drain it, very slow about 30 minutes to drain, then fill it with distilled water, and start it. I would then top it off with the engine idling, put the pressure cap back on and bump the idle to 1100 and turn the EB on to get some heat. With my Hawaii T-stat and a 30ish degree garage (cant fit the truck in with the door closed) and the hood open the coolant would only get to 114*. I would let it get to 114* then turn the EB off and bump the idle to 1500 for a few minutes. Then shut it down, drain, and repeat.
This photo shows 1 gallon from each flush, with the full strength OE fluid on the left and an unopened gallon of water on the right. Drains 4 and 5 were identical in color, so I assumed that was about my point of diminishing returns.
For coolant I chose Zerex G-05, its HOAT and the factory fill. HOAT coolant is very difficult to find, and HOAT is not compatible with non-HOAT. I think I paid about $11/gal for it at NAPA. (Even thou its the OEM fluid, its not pink it's a yellow, which is really hard to see in the overflow tank)
Since its a 7.4 gallon system and only 4-5 gallons drain you MUST, I repeat MUST, use concentrated coolant, not a 50:50 pre-mix (even thou the service manual states 50:50 you don't want to do this, it will yeild you a 25-40% mix at most). You need to add 3.7 gallons of coolant to the system to have a 50:50 mix. First thing to do is to make 1.5 gallons of pre-mix, this is for the overflow tank. Fill the overflow tank to the FULL line and pour the rest of the 50:50 in the radiator. Now add the remaining 3 gallons to the radiator. Now, and only now, will you and any straight distilled water to the radiator. I was only able to get about .5gallons of distilled water in after the coolant, so even adding a gallon of distilled first will mess up your 50:50 desierd mix. Now start the enigne with the heater still on full and let it idle for a minute. Then add more distilled water to top it off. Repeat this once. Now you should be full enough that you won't pull your overflow reservoir below ADD.
Take it for a test drive, try to drive it a few miles after you have reached operating temp to get the coolant and water to properly mix throughout the block, radiator, and heater core. This was the hardest part for me, it was 19* outside, and there was 1-3" of snow on the roads. Even with my winter front fully closed I had to get up to 65-70 to get the T-stat to open and mix, then slow and accelerate again... But I got the t-stat to open 6-8 times and am confident I got a good mix.
I used 3.7 gallons of G-05 and approx 23 gallons of distilled water.
A little trick for pouring the coolant into smaller containers from the bucket. If you have ever put a funnel in a gallon container you know it bubbles and spills since the air cant escape. Try putting a toothpick in the opening of the container with the funnel, works great.
First off the service manual has the procedure, and it really is quite simple.
Originally Posted by 2005 Service Manual
DRAINING COOLING SYSTEM - 5.9L DIESEL ENGINE
WARNING: DO NOT REMOVE THE CYLINDER BLOCK DRAIN PLUGS OR LOOSEN THE RADIATOR DRAIN
PLUG WITH SYSTEM HOT AND UNDER PRESSURE. SERIOUS BURNS FROM COOLANT CAN OCCUR.
DO NOT WASTE reusable coolant. If the solution is clean, drain the coolant into a clean container for reuse.
1. Start the engine and place the heater control temperature selector in the Full-On position.
2. Turn the ignition off.
3. Do not remove radiator cap when draining coolant from reserve/overflow tank. Open radiator drain plug and
when tank is empty, remove radiator cap. If the coolant reserve/overflow tank does not drain, (Refer to 7 -
COOLING - DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING). The coolant need not be removed from tank unless the system is
being refilled with fresh mixture.
4. Remove radiator pressure cap.
REFILLING COOLING SYSTEM - 5.9L DIESEL ENGINE
Clean cooling system prior to refilling (Refer to 7 - COOLING - STANDARD PROCEDURE).
1. Close radiator drain plug.
CAUTION: Due to the use of the one-way check valve, the engine must not be operating when refilling the
cooling system.
NOTE: The diesel engine is equipped with two one-way check valves (jiggle pins). The check valves are
used as a servicing feature and will vent air when the system is being filled. Water pressure (or flow) will
hold the valves closed.
2. Fill the cooling system with a 50/50 mixture of water and antifreeze.
3. Fill coolant reserve/overflow tank to the FULL mark.
4. Start and operate engine until thermostat opens. Upper radiator hose should be warm to touch.
5. If necessary, add 50/50 water and antifreeze mixture to the coolant reserve/overflow tank to maintain coolant
level. This level should be between the ADD and FULL marks. The level in the reserve/overflow tank may drop
below the ADD mark after three or four warm-up and cool-down cycles.
WARNING: DO NOT REMOVE THE CYLINDER BLOCK DRAIN PLUGS OR LOOSEN THE RADIATOR DRAIN
PLUG WITH SYSTEM HOT AND UNDER PRESSURE. SERIOUS BURNS FROM COOLANT CAN OCCUR.
DO NOT WASTE reusable coolant. If the solution is clean, drain the coolant into a clean container for reuse.
1. Start the engine and place the heater control temperature selector in the Full-On position.
2. Turn the ignition off.
3. Do not remove radiator cap when draining coolant from reserve/overflow tank. Open radiator drain plug and
when tank is empty, remove radiator cap. If the coolant reserve/overflow tank does not drain, (Refer to 7 -
COOLING - DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING). The coolant need not be removed from tank unless the system is
being refilled with fresh mixture.
4. Remove radiator pressure cap.
REFILLING COOLING SYSTEM - 5.9L DIESEL ENGINE
Clean cooling system prior to refilling (Refer to 7 - COOLING - STANDARD PROCEDURE).
1. Close radiator drain plug.
CAUTION: Due to the use of the one-way check valve, the engine must not be operating when refilling the
cooling system.
NOTE: The diesel engine is equipped with two one-way check valves (jiggle pins). The check valves are
used as a servicing feature and will vent air when the system is being filled. Water pressure (or flow) will
hold the valves closed.
2. Fill the cooling system with a 50/50 mixture of water and antifreeze.
3. Fill coolant reserve/overflow tank to the FULL mark.
4. Start and operate engine until thermostat opens. Upper radiator hose should be warm to touch.
5. If necessary, add 50/50 water and antifreeze mixture to the coolant reserve/overflow tank to maintain coolant
level. This level should be between the ADD and FULL marks. The level in the reserve/overflow tank may drop
below the ADD mark after three or four warm-up and cool-down cycles.
Originally Posted by 2005 Service Manual
5.9L DIESEL ENGINE
WARNING: DO NOT LOOSEN THE RADIATOR
DRAINCOCK WITH THE SYSTEM HOT AND PRESSURIZED.
SERIOUS BURNS FROM THE COOLANT
CAN OCCUR.
Do not waste reusable coolant. If the solution is clean,
drain the coolant into a clean container for reuse.
1. Disconnect the battery negative cables.
2. Drain cooling system until coolant level is below
thermostat (Refer to 7 - COOLING - STANDARD
PROCEDURE).
DR/DH ENGINE 7 - 65
WARNING: CONSTANT TENSION HOSE CLAMPS
ARE USED ON MOST COOLING SYSTEM HOSES.
WHEN REMOVING OR INSTALLING, USE ONLY
TOOLS DESIGNED FOR SERVICING THIS TYPE OF
CLAMP, SUCH AS SPECIAL CLAMP TOOL (NUMBER
6094).
CAUTION: A number or letter is stamped into the
tongue of constant tension clamps. If replacement
is necessary, use only an original equipment
clamp with a matching number or letter.
3. Remove radiator hose clamp and hose from thermostat
housing (1).
4. Remove the three water outlet-to-cylinder head
bolts and remove the water outlet connector.
5. Clean the mating surfaces of the water outlet connector
and clean the thermostat seat groove at the
top of the thermostat housing.
5.9L DIESEL ENGINE
1. Inspect thermostat seal for cuts or nicks. Replace if
damaged.
2. Install the thermostat into the groove in the top of
the cylinder head (2).
3. Install the thermostat housing (1) and bolts. Tighten
the bolts to 10 N·m (89 in. lbs.) torque.
4. Install the radiator upper hose and clamp.
5. Fill the cooling system with coolant (Refer to 7 -
COOLING - STANDARD PROCEDURE).
6. Connect the battery negative cables.
7. Start the engine and check for coolant leaks. Run
engine to check for proper thermostat operation.
WARNING: DO NOT LOOSEN THE RADIATOR
DRAINCOCK WITH THE SYSTEM HOT AND PRESSURIZED.
SERIOUS BURNS FROM THE COOLANT
CAN OCCUR.
Do not waste reusable coolant. If the solution is clean,
drain the coolant into a clean container for reuse.
1. Disconnect the battery negative cables.
2. Drain cooling system until coolant level is below
thermostat (Refer to 7 - COOLING - STANDARD
PROCEDURE).
DR/DH ENGINE 7 - 65
WARNING: CONSTANT TENSION HOSE CLAMPS
ARE USED ON MOST COOLING SYSTEM HOSES.
WHEN REMOVING OR INSTALLING, USE ONLY
TOOLS DESIGNED FOR SERVICING THIS TYPE OF
CLAMP, SUCH AS SPECIAL CLAMP TOOL (NUMBER
6094).
CAUTION: A number or letter is stamped into the
tongue of constant tension clamps. If replacement
is necessary, use only an original equipment
clamp with a matching number or letter.
3. Remove radiator hose clamp and hose from thermostat
housing (1).
4. Remove the three water outlet-to-cylinder head
bolts and remove the water outlet connector.
5. Clean the mating surfaces of the water outlet connector
and clean the thermostat seat groove at the
top of the thermostat housing.
5.9L DIESEL ENGINE
1. Inspect thermostat seal for cuts or nicks. Replace if
damaged.
2. Install the thermostat into the groove in the top of
the cylinder head (2).
3. Install the thermostat housing (1) and bolts. Tighten
the bolts to 10 N·m (89 in. lbs.) torque.
4. Install the radiator upper hose and clamp.
5. Fill the cooling system with coolant (Refer to 7 -
COOLING - STANDARD PROCEDURE).
6. Connect the battery negative cables.
7. Start the engine and check for coolant leaks. Run
engine to check for proper thermostat operation.
Since it was in the 20's and snowing yesterday I knew I would have a hard time making the coolant warm enough to open the thermostat to get a good flush, and removing the thermostat would cause a leak so I modified my OE thermostat. A freind of mine calls this a "Hawaii T-Stat".
So I drained the block/radiator 5 times. This may seem excessive, but consider this. A drain only gets about 4-5 gallons out, and its a 7.4 gallon system. So I wanted to ensure that I had as much of the old coolant out as possible.
What I would do is drain it, very slow about 30 minutes to drain, then fill it with distilled water, and start it. I would then top it off with the engine idling, put the pressure cap back on and bump the idle to 1100 and turn the EB on to get some heat. With my Hawaii T-stat and a 30ish degree garage (cant fit the truck in with the door closed) and the hood open the coolant would only get to 114*. I would let it get to 114* then turn the EB off and bump the idle to 1500 for a few minutes. Then shut it down, drain, and repeat.
This photo shows 1 gallon from each flush, with the full strength OE fluid on the left and an unopened gallon of water on the right. Drains 4 and 5 were identical in color, so I assumed that was about my point of diminishing returns.
For coolant I chose Zerex G-05, its HOAT and the factory fill. HOAT coolant is very difficult to find, and HOAT is not compatible with non-HOAT. I think I paid about $11/gal for it at NAPA. (Even thou its the OEM fluid, its not pink it's a yellow, which is really hard to see in the overflow tank)
Since its a 7.4 gallon system and only 4-5 gallons drain you MUST, I repeat MUST, use concentrated coolant, not a 50:50 pre-mix (even thou the service manual states 50:50 you don't want to do this, it will yeild you a 25-40% mix at most). You need to add 3.7 gallons of coolant to the system to have a 50:50 mix. First thing to do is to make 1.5 gallons of pre-mix, this is for the overflow tank. Fill the overflow tank to the FULL line and pour the rest of the 50:50 in the radiator. Now add the remaining 3 gallons to the radiator. Now, and only now, will you and any straight distilled water to the radiator. I was only able to get about .5gallons of distilled water in after the coolant, so even adding a gallon of distilled first will mess up your 50:50 desierd mix. Now start the enigne with the heater still on full and let it idle for a minute. Then add more distilled water to top it off. Repeat this once. Now you should be full enough that you won't pull your overflow reservoir below ADD.
Take it for a test drive, try to drive it a few miles after you have reached operating temp to get the coolant and water to properly mix throughout the block, radiator, and heater core. This was the hardest part for me, it was 19* outside, and there was 1-3" of snow on the roads. Even with my winter front fully closed I had to get up to 65-70 to get the T-stat to open and mix, then slow and accelerate again... But I got the t-stat to open 6-8 times and am confident I got a good mix.
I used 3.7 gallons of G-05 and approx 23 gallons of distilled water.
A little trick for pouring the coolant into smaller containers from the bucket. If you have ever put a funnel in a gallon container you know it bubbles and spills since the air cant escape. Try putting a toothpick in the opening of the container with the funnel, works great.
01-20-2010, 07:43 PM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
Yes it wouldn't be good...
In my setup I added the required coolant to make the mix 50% based on a 7.4 gallon capacity. Then topped it off with distilled water, making it 50:50.
In my setup I added the required coolant to make the mix 50% based on a 7.4 gallon capacity. Then topped it off with distilled water, making it 50:50.
01-20-2010, 08:42 PM
#4
Registered User
Using an excessive amount of coolant in your engine can be detrimental. Coolant concentrations higher than the manufacturers recommended levels can cause problems including corrosion, water pump failure, and increased engine wear. Water (distilled) is required to activate the chemicals contained within the coolants inhibitor package. Furthermore, adding water to antifreeze significantly increases the freeze and boil over protection than a high concentration of coolant alone. Any increase in concentration above 60% actually compromises the freezing and overheating protection.
When changing my coolant, I utilize a digital refractometer in order to measure the the coolant concentration and the freeze point (the temperature where the first ice crystals form) that I wish to protect to.
When changing my coolant, I utilize a digital refractometer in order to measure the the coolant concentration and the freeze point (the temperature where the first ice crystals form) that I wish to protect to.
01-20-2010, 10:01 PM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Using an excessive amount of coolant in your engine can be detrimental. Coolant concentrations higher than the manufacturers recommended levels can cause problems including corrosion, water pump failure, and increased engine wear. Water (distilled) is required to activate the chemicals contained within the coolants inhibitor package. Furthermore, adding water to antifreeze significantly increases the freeze and boil over protection than a high concentration of coolant alone. Any increase in concentration above 60% actually compromises the freezing and overheating protection.
01-20-2010, 10:51 PM
#6
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Well I have to say that my concentration is 70/30 split for the last 100k miles and I have had no problems. When I Flushed the first time and put the Mopar antifreeze (Dexcool) I lost my water pump in 3 days. So I bought the Amsoil stuff and a couple of gallons of distilled water and wahlah. Oh yea the whole HOAT thing is a sales pitch. Just like GM saying to use DEX COOL, has anyone seen the damage that DExCool has done to intake gaskets and water pumps and corrosion to radiators. There is absolutely no reason to use HOAT other than a sales pitch our blocks are still cast iron like they were 20 years ago what is the need????? Theres Not. Good night
01-20-2010, 11:30 PM
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
The only reason to run 70/30 is if you live somewhere MUCH colder than TN. At 70/30 your more likely to overheat and cause damage.
The only reason the Amsoil worked for you is that its the only coolant I know of that is non-HOAT that is HOAT compatiable.
No reason to get upset, unless your trying to justify a poor decision or comment.
The only reason the Amsoil worked for you is that its the only coolant I know of that is non-HOAT that is HOAT compatiable.
No reason to get upset, unless your trying to justify a poor decision or comment.
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01-21-2010, 01:12 AM
#8
Registered User
In the event that the ambient temperature ever reaches -84F 276F in TN, your cooling system is up for the challenge. I concur with AH64ID's comment in regards to the current concentration level you are at.
Just so that you are aware, Mopar antifreeze is a HOAT and DEXCOOL is an OAT formulation. The additive packages formulated for each of them are dissimilar. Amsoil claims that their coolant is compatable with HOAT coolants and many other formulas, so it is aparrently working for you.
Ford Motor Company whom also uses a HOAT formulated coolant as their factory fill has published the following information regarding the use of "universal"coolants in Ford vehicles from which I have included.
Q: What is Ford's position on the use of "universal" coolants in Ford vehicles?
A: Ford does not have performance data for the multitude of engine coolants available in the aftermarket and therefore cannot recommend the use of any coolant except those approved by Ford Motor Company. Due to the complexity of cooling systems, no one coolant has been proven to work in all vehicles. "Universal" coolants generally do not contain silicates and nitrites, both of which are required for Ford vehicles equipped with Motorcraft Premium Gold Engine Coolant. Thus, these "universal" coolants generally do not meet Ford's coolant specification WSS-M97B51-A1".
"Use of non-approved "universal" coolants may lead to eventual engine damage or failure. Problems caused by use of non-approved "universal" coolant may not arise immediately, but may occur over longer periods of time due to additive compatibility issues".
"Although the Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty is not automatically voided upon the use of a non-approved coolant in Ford vehicles, if such use results in damage to the vehicle or its components, the cost of repairing the damage (and related damage) would not be covered by the Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty".
Given the aforementioned information, the recent financial troubles with Dodge and their dealers' willingness to void warranty claims for any given reason, I do not recommend using the "all makes all models" formulated coolants or any other non approved formulation in a vehicle factory filled with HOAT G-05 coolant.
Just so that you are aware, Mopar antifreeze is a HOAT and DEXCOOL is an OAT formulation. The additive packages formulated for each of them are dissimilar. Amsoil claims that their coolant is compatable with HOAT coolants and many other formulas, so it is aparrently working for you.
Ford Motor Company whom also uses a HOAT formulated coolant as their factory fill has published the following information regarding the use of "universal"coolants in Ford vehicles from which I have included.
Q: What is Ford's position on the use of "universal" coolants in Ford vehicles?
A: Ford does not have performance data for the multitude of engine coolants available in the aftermarket and therefore cannot recommend the use of any coolant except those approved by Ford Motor Company. Due to the complexity of cooling systems, no one coolant has been proven to work in all vehicles. "Universal" coolants generally do not contain silicates and nitrites, both of which are required for Ford vehicles equipped with Motorcraft Premium Gold Engine Coolant. Thus, these "universal" coolants generally do not meet Ford's coolant specification WSS-M97B51-A1".
"Use of non-approved "universal" coolants may lead to eventual engine damage or failure. Problems caused by use of non-approved "universal" coolant may not arise immediately, but may occur over longer periods of time due to additive compatibility issues".
"Although the Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty is not automatically voided upon the use of a non-approved coolant in Ford vehicles, if such use results in damage to the vehicle or its components, the cost of repairing the damage (and related damage) would not be covered by the Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty".
Given the aforementioned information, the recent financial troubles with Dodge and their dealers' willingness to void warranty claims for any given reason, I do not recommend using the "all makes all models" formulated coolants or any other non approved formulation in a vehicle factory filled with HOAT G-05 coolant.
Last edited by Dr.Dizzle; 01-21-2010 at 01:13 AM. Reason: Clarification
01-21-2010, 07:33 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
Given the aforementioned information, the recent financial troubles with Dodge and their dealers' willingness to void warranty claims for any given reason, I do not recommend using the "all makes all models" formulated coolants or any other non approved formulation in a vehicle factory filled with HOAT G-05 coolant.
01-21-2010, 08:47 PM
#10
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Good post AH. Took most of a day to do I guess?
So how often should we be flushing? My 06 has 45k miles on it.
Also, what's the environmentally proper way to dispose of the old coolant?
So how often should we be flushing? My 06 has 45k miles on it.
Also, what's the environmentally proper way to dispose of the old coolant?
01-21-2010, 09:19 PM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
It took me 3 or 4 hours. Would have been less had the temp been above freezing.
The OE interval is 100K or 60 months. The Zerex says 150K or 60 months.
There are places that will take coolant.
The OE interval is 100K or 60 months. The Zerex says 150K or 60 months.
There are places that will take coolant.
01-22-2010, 01:03 PM
#12
Registered User
I agree 100%. Like I said I am a big fan of Cat EC-1 Extended Life Coolant. I have seen it do good things, but I don't want to chance a non-compatible mix of coolants. And really G-05 is good for 150K or 60 months, thats much better than the 30K in my 4runner with the factory fill.
02-06-2010, 05:36 AM
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Good post - thanks for the info.
Any utility in adding something like Water Wetter? I used that in my 95 and 99 5.2L Dodge engines - but have not in my cummins.
Any utility in adding something like Water Wetter? I used that in my 95 and 99 5.2L Dodge engines - but have not in my cummins.
02-06-2010, 07:28 AM
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w/ most of my driving between fl and tn, what coolant mixture should i run? 50:50? also, do they actually have ways to measure this other than the floating ball tool you stick in the radiator? i'll be flushing my radiator here in a couple months and installing a Opie bypass kit at the same time.