3rd Gen Engine and Drivetrain -> 2003-2007 5.9 liter Engine and drivetrain discussion only. PLEASE, NO HIGH PERFORMANCE DISCUSSION!

Cold no start

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Dec 1, 2015 | 09:19 PM
  #1  
Diesel2013's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Cold no start

Anything under 45 degrees it wont start unless plugged in.
I checked with scanner and it builds no rail pressure if its plugged in it fires right up! It doesnt build oil. It runs fine when it starts has full power and full boost. It has an aftermarket fuel pump on frame rail is there a fuel heater on this system? Just curious doesnt blow smoke at all either. Hard to believe injectors bad when it runs this good! Any other ideas or possible tests? Also rail pressure is spot on through all rpm ranges when it starts
Reply
Old Dec 1, 2015 | 11:37 PM
  #2  
CRF450R RIDER's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 218
Likes: 2
there is no fuel heater, but there is a grid heater. might be an issue with your fca
Reply
Old Dec 2, 2015 | 07:54 AM
  #3  
PWong's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
There was a fuel heater inside the stock fuel filter canister.
You might have issue with injector/tube, failed to build up rail pressure when cold but OK when warm/hot.
Reply
Old Dec 2, 2015 | 08:52 AM
  #4  
Diesel2013's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by CRF450R RIDER
there is no fuel heater, but there is a grid heater. might be an issue with your fca
I unplugged fca and still no pressure if there was a problem with that or cp3 wouldn't i have driveabilty issues?
Reply
Old Dec 3, 2015 | 01:31 AM
  #5  
Steve-l's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 361
Likes: 3
From: Germany
There is some safety logic involved here. The injectors will not be fired unless a threshold pressure is reached of 5,000 PSI. Any fuel leak in the rail system or injectors can prevent or restrict this threshold being reached. Troubleshooting this kind of fault is time consuming, as each injector must be blocked off with a special tool one at a time until this threshold pressure is reached while being cranked in order to isolate the leak.
Reply
Old Dec 3, 2015 | 07:55 AM
  #6  
Jbremount's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Diesel2013
Anything under 45 degrees it wont start unless plugged in.
I checked with scanner and it builds no rail pressure if its plugged in it fires right up! It doesnt build oil. It runs fine when it starts has full power and full boost. It has an aftermarket fuel pump on frame rail is there a fuel heater on this system? Just curious doesnt blow smoke at all either. Hard to believe injectors bad when it runs this good! Any other ideas or possible tests? Also rail pressure is spot on through all rpm ranges when it starts

My truck was doing that exact same thing and it was the injectors. If you have a lot of miles on the injectors, then suspect that the injectors passing too much fuel due to age. The worn injectors are not allowing enough fuel pressure to build up to start. I skipped the testing of the old injectors and bought brand new Bosch motorsport +50 injectors from DAP and installed them myself. The truck starts fine now.
Reply
Old Dec 3, 2015 | 09:28 AM
  #7  
Diesel2013's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Jbremount
My truck was doing that exact same thing and it was the injectors. If you have a lot of miles on the injectors, then suspect that the injectors passing too much fuel due to age. The worn injectors are not allowing enough fuel pressure to build up to start. I skipped the testing of the old injectors and bought brand new Bosch motorsport +50 injectors from DAP and installed them myself. The truck starts fine now.
How much were the new injectors from dap?
Reply
Old Dec 3, 2015 | 09:31 AM
  #8  
Diesel2013's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Steve-l
There is some safety logic involved here. The injectors will not be fired unless a threshold pressure is reached of 5,000 PSI. Any fuel leak in the rail system or injectors can prevent or restrict this threshold being reached. Troubleshooting this kind of fault is time consuming, as each injector must be blocked off with a special tool one at a time until this threshold pressure is reached while being cranked in order to isolate the leak.
This test would only be valid when it is in a no start condition tho wouldn't it? Would it be easier to take them out and bring them to a place and get them tested? And even with the testing would they have to put the injectors in the freezer then test them for an accurate test? Not doubting its the injectors just trying to understand how they can leak on and off and i still have full power and good fuel mileage?
Reply
Old Dec 3, 2015 | 10:33 AM
  #9  
Jbremount's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Diesel2013
How much were the new injectors from dap?
I think I paid around $331 apiece. FWIK, Call and you will get a better price than advertised.

Brand New BOSCH MOTORSPORTS Injector 50HP 143* spray *Offroad Use Only - BMS50E - Diesel Auto Power, LLC
Reply
Old Dec 3, 2015 | 01:28 PM
  #10  
pmtg's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
From: Minnesota
Another vote for injectors. Exactly how much truck acted....wouldn't start when cold unless plugged in, but otherwise ran perfect. New injectors installed a couple years ago and have no issues since. I had 150,000 miles on at the time, replace all 6 injectors. It's expensive and was tough to spend that much without a guarantee it would fix my issue, but starts just fine ever since.
Reply
Old Dec 4, 2015 | 11:48 AM
  #11  
Jeff in TD's Avatar
Registered User
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 16
From: Oregon
A friend who bought my 03 had the same symptoms.

There is a fitting to seperate return flow from injectors and return flow from the CP-3, so measurements can be taken. The dealer did the test.

Turns out return flow from injectors was over spec. The block off tool can then be used to take one injector out of the picture at a time, and do the injector return flow test again.

Doing the math revealed that individual injector was over spec, as was the remaining 5 (so at least one of them is also bad). Cap a different injector and it became clearr those 2 were bad, and flow from the other 4 also had to be too high...

Like yours the truck ran fine. Return flow from the injectors was high enough it prevented the engine from reaching rail pressure where the injectors would fire when cranking cold...

Here's a video that shows the injector return flow test procedure.

Reply
Old Dec 4, 2015 | 05:52 PM
  #12  
Jbremount's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
The test in that video is labor intensive and shop labor is $80-$100 a hour. It would probably would be cheaper to send the injectors into a shop for testing. DAP does that for starting prices of $15 an injector.
Injector Testing - Diesel Auto Power, LLC

Just thinking out loud, (Maybe one of the smart diesel guys can answer this!) Can one use ported rail fittings to increase the starting rail pressure of worn injectors? Seems there should be some "work around" for this from a hotrodder or mechanic.

Wild Diesel Ported Fuel Rail Fitting for 2003 2007 Dodge Cummins 5 9 Common Rail | eBay
Reply
Old Dec 5, 2015 | 06:53 PM
  #13  
Dr. Smasher's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 150
Likes: 1
First time ever this happened to me a couple of days ago. It was only around 45 or so out. Though it has been smoking upon first startup. It puts out a white puff and then if in gear while on the break it puts out a decent amount of whitish smoke. If I give it some throttle it gets black as it should. It runs a little rougher and the same at idle. I've got 160k on an 05' and around 120k of that I've been running a SMARTY at different levels but mostly at 3. The smoke goes away after it warms up. When it didn't start the other day it would turn over once then stop. I tried a 2nd time and got a couple more cranks. So I cycled the heater grid a couple of times and it started. Brand new batteries as in less then 6 months and they're fully charged. So not a battery issue but that wouldn't cause the smoking until warm anyway.

I'm figuring from everything I've heard its about time to change the injectors anyway so I figured I'd start there. I'm going to order Bostech stock injectors from shopinjectors.com.

Does anyone know about that site or have any experience with them?
Reply
Old Dec 6, 2015 | 10:29 PM
  #14  
pmtg's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
From: Minnesota
Originally Posted by Dr. Smasher
First time ever this happened to me a couple of days ago. It was only around 45 or so out. Though it has been smoking upon first startup. It puts out a white puff and then if in gear while on the break it puts out a decent amount of whitish smoke. If I give it some throttle it gets black as it should. It runs a little rougher and the same at idle. I've got 160k on an 05' and around 120k of that I've been running a SMARTY at different levels but mostly at 3. The smoke goes away after it warms up. When it didn't start the other day it would turn over once then stop. I tried a 2nd time and got a couple more cranks. So I cycled the heater grid a couple of times and it started. Brand new batteries as in less then 6 months and they're fully charged. So not a battery issue but that wouldn't cause the smoking until warm anyway.

I'm figuring from everything I've heard its about time to change the injectors anyway so I figured I'd start there. I'm going to order Bostech stock injectors from shopinjectors.com.

Does anyone know about that site or have any experience with them?
The price is cheaper because they are reman's. The golden rule is do NOT buy reman's.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
bullfrog5.9
General Diesel Discussion
11
Jan 3, 2010 05:41 PM
CoolumConst
3rd Gen High Performance and Accessories (5.9L Only)
9
Oct 11, 2008 10:00 PM
yukon mike
24 Valve Engine and Drivetrain
8
Nov 28, 2006 10:51 AM
wings
General Diesel Discussion
20
Nov 8, 2004 05:32 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:30 PM.