What was the verdict Phil?<br><br> I still have not had time to run the tests I want to do on my truck to try to solve this. I did talk to the dealer about it when I ordered my replacement Alt bracket per the TSB and they did not have a clue. I just rolled 12k miles so I made sure I reported it to them just before it rolled over.<br><br>CTDCAL

 

CTDCAL,<br><br>Tues I check back with Folsom Lake Dodge &quot;Diesel Specialist&quot;/Shop Foreman. The last thing he said to me after the test drive on Thurs, &quot;It could be a warped flywheel&quot;. He also checked the underside while truck was shaking but that was inconclusive. Said there is an engineering specialist from Dodge that comes from the Bay Area on his to assist in diagnosis when he requests. He indicated he may request this assistance.<br><br>He also said that this shaking behavior is not acceptable for a tow vehicle and said he will find a solution to the problem.<br> To properly diagnose and solve a problem the problem solver must have the KNOWLEDGE to solve the problem and BE CHALLENGED by the problem.<br>Unfortunately for us there are too many TECHS that lack the knowledge, they are &quot;Parts Pullers&quot;. Also, too many don't feel any challenge in problem solving, just there for the pay check.

 

Phil,<br><br>My feelings exactly regarding mechanics and problem solving. Most, not all, dealership mechanics fall into the paycheck category (I'll probably take a beating for this comment), if they were real problem solvers they would be working for a race team somewhere!!!! Keep me posted on your progress with DC and I will try to get at this thing this week on my end. I am pretty confident with my resources that the problem can be solved, still not sure what it is though, that's what makes it so interesting to diagnose and solve.<br><br>CTDCAL

 

[quote author=CTDCAL link=board=20;threadid=13959;start=45#142249 date=1053972486]<br>Phil,<br><br>My feelings exactly regarding mechanics and problem solving. Most, not all, dealership mechanics fall into the paycheck category (I'll probably take a beating for this comment), if they were real problem solvers they would be working for a race team somewhere!!!! Keep me posted on your progress with DC and I will try to get at this thing this week on my end. I am pretty confident with my resources that the problem can be solved, still not sure what it is though, that's what makes it so interesting to diagnose and solve.<br><br>CTDCAL<br>[/quote]<br><br>I'm just glad that I was on the technician end and not the customer end. Sucks huge to be the customer... 97% don't have a clue about their vehicle except D makes it go forward, R makes it go back and the pedal on the right makes it go faster...and they hate paying for repairs.....(how many can honestly say they read the owners manual front to back? 50k truck and they don't read it, 60 dollar VCR and they read the manual 6 times...)<br>Yep tons of ads for race-team technicians.... :<br>On one hand you want top notch service from your dealer but think all the &quot;good techs&quot; should be wrenching for Nascar :<br>POP &quot;what was that sound your head coming out of your butt again????&quot; You, my friend, fall into the &quot;typical customer&quot;category: you &quot;know&quot; more than the dealership personnel but still can't diag and fix your vehicle.<br>Like I said before blame the &quot;parts pullers&quot; on the flat rate system. Diag does not pay squat...to DC and the Dealer Principals not at the techs..<br>BTW most techs make 50-100g per year. Some more some less.FWIW

 

Paul,<br><br>I deserved that for my comments and predicted that it would come. I don't know anything about your history and you may very well be a super mechanic/problem solver. I agree that most people don't know squat about their vehicle, however I don't think that I am one of those people. I did not say that all dealer mechanics fall into that category, rather most do or some become jaded and bootstrapped by the dealership. Hard for me to have much faith in dealership shops when I have seen them overfill engines and trannys to the point of blowing the seals (chevy dealer), not know the proper oil to put in or how much in a rear diff and leave shop rags in a freshly rebuilt rear diff (dodge dealer), set the valves wrong (Honda Dealer), I could go on and on.<br><br>I did not say that I could not solve my own problem or figure it out, with the assistance of others alot more knowlegeable then I am, I'm pretty sure this thing can be figured out and made to work correctly. The problem described by Phil is not your average easily diagnosed problem, however the problem exists and he has had to run all over the country-side to get someone to recognize it and hopefully now deal with it.<br><br>I would now say that I am not the average non-mechanically minded brainless customer and hope you are not the average collect your paycheck and replace parts by the book non-problem solving mechanic. I feel for you the mechanic that has to deal constantly with those brainless customers as much as I do for the mechanically saavy customers who get the shaft or brush off by any mechanic, dealer or not.<br><br>Last qualification; most of the best mechanics that I know and trust as unique problem solvers work at or have worked at a dealer shop, they gained alot of experience there, its just too bad the work ethic mostly has changed now where some mechanics think that if it aint in the book they can't fix it. My comments about race teams maybe carried it a bit to far!<br><br>Enough of my soapbox and sorry to have offended you.<br><br>CTDCAL

 

No Problem. We are having a good healthy lively discussion. I take nothing the wrong way, and hope you also don't. You should see this place when we get the family together. The neighbors think someone is gonna get shot. (they never hear anything we use silencers.. )Like someone said opinions are like...well u know the rest. Believe me I have seen some garbage work at the shops in my time. (clutch pressure plate broken bolts, pistons installed in engines with no rings!!!, manual trans with no syncro installed, oil changes with no oil go out the door etc.) These are just some. I have also seen one car come back after I gave an estimate for brakes. This lady thought she could save some $$ by having her husband or brother or whoever do them in the driveway. Somebody should have told him to put the front brake pads in with the friction material TOWARDS the rotor and not away from it. She wondered what the squealing noise was. Duh... Then she rips my head off when I tell her she now needs rotors... She says they were not on the original estimate..Duh again...<br>Or the lady who runs over a muffler on the road. Rips the bottom of the oil pan off (Tempo) She calls her husband she says the oil lite is on. He says look under the car for oil leaks. She finds none. He says drive it to the nearest garage to have a look at it. 3 blocks later it seized. Well Duh....<br>He has it towed to our dealership and the work order says oil filter is faulty and caused all the oil to leak out on the ground, wife drove it and now engine seized. He wanted an engine under warranty......(this is after the corner garage put a new oil pan on and filled it up with oil) Ranted and raved and threatened us until we called the cops. Then the Mrs. comes in and tells us the real story, gives us her visa # and says fix it.......I could type for hours...<br>In a nutshell I worked hard to diag problems properly, sometimes not correctly the first time but we usually got it. Best of luck on your problems. Keep informed, and be informed.

 

spots and CTDCAL, <br><br>What really raises my blood pressure is when I am treated by service depart personnel, all categories of employees as though they are the only ones that could know what the way to fix my vehicle.<br><br>I will give an example of this treatment. I owned a Plymouth Horizon. The right front boot on rack and pinion steering started leaking, drip, drip, drip. I called the selling dealer parts dept and asked if the replacement boot was in stock. The answer was affirmative. <br><br>Being short of time, I took it to the selling dealer's for replacement, a no brainer job. I told the service advisor that I wanted new boots replaced on my rack and pinion steer. He looked at me and replied, &quot;Those boots are not replaceable, once one leaks, the entire assembly must be replaced.&quot; Wanting to play along with his game I asked to be quoted a price for replacing an assembly. He stated, &quot;Parts and labor will be about $700.&quot; <br><br>It was then could take it no longer and replied, &quot;I believe I will take it where they do know how to replace just the boots as explained in the factory service manual. I don't believe you want my business so I won't bother your parts department for the parts either even though they have the parts in stock.&quot;<br><br>I bought the parts from a Dodge Dealer located about 1 mile away. I worked about 3 hours total on three evenings, did the job myself. Finally sold the Plym. some 80,000 miles and the steering was still almost as tight as new.<br><br>No, it was not the Tech but his front man trying to over sell the needed job. Did anyone even take hold of the steering wheel or look under the vehicle to see signs of a problem. I never returned to that Dealer to buy a vehicle or have one serviced after that kind of treatment. <br><br>Here in CA we have the BAR, Bureau of Automotive Repairs. BAR has a Investigative Division. They have their Tech go over plain wrapper vehicles and set up a problem. They then take the vihicle to repair shop where there have been numerous complaints regarding repair fraud. It is regretable that tax money must be spent this way to keep shops honest. They have caught some &quot;big fish&quot;, &quot;Mark C. Bloom&quot; and &quot;Sears&quot;, numerous auto dealerships, and independent shops. The honest shop has little to fear, only those which are dishonest should be afraid.

 

[quote author=Sierra Phil link=board=20;threadid=13959;start=45#142314 date=1053993489]<br>spots and CTDCAL, <br><br> I owned a Plymouth Horizon. [/quote]<br><br>You owned a WHAT??????? <br><br>Phil:<br>Rank and pinion dust boots don't leak fluid. They are there to keep the dust outa the seals. Were u talking the rack seals??<br>As far as I know the rack needs to be disassembled to install the seals. This was on the F*rd cars and vans.<br>The gov't program u talked about to catch the fraud came to our dealership also. They had taken a Crown Vic and brought it in with a dead miss. They had also worked with the software in the PCM to not store a code for this miss (OBDII)<br>Guy beside me was working on it. He scanned the PCM and found no codes, pulled the scope over, found the miss, pulled the plug out, saw nothing physically wrong with it other than being wet with gas and a little worn, grabbed a spark plug, installed it, and the miss was gone. He then checked the other plugs for wear (if one is bad another might go soon no??) Plugs were fair to good shape so he rec'd to have the other 7 plugs changed. He got called a thief from these so called gov't boneheads. They thought he should have found the spark plug asap and put it out with only one plug. Do that in the real world and the customer might come back mad because another plug goes bad the next week. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Alot of crap went on because of this. We were told by our service manager that if a car came back within one month with a miss after a tune up we were fixing it for free and paying for the parts. 5 out of 9 guys in the shop quit on the spot. I was working 2 days later at another dealership who canned a guy to take me on. Just the other side of the coin.

 

First car, 1935 Ferd flat head V-8 3 on the floor. Other cars 1941 Studebaker, 1947 Studebaker, 1951 Plymouth, 1954 Rambler, 1959 Taunus, 1962 Rambler, 1968 Plymouth Satellite, 1971 Plymouth Satellite, 1974 Plymouth Fury, 1978 Plymouth Horizon, 1978 Dodge Omni, 1984 Toyota Pickup, 1986 Dodge 600, 1989 Ferd Aerostar (Lemon), 1990 Dodge Dakota, 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 1998 Dodge Ram 2500, 2003 Dodge 2500.<br><br>'78 Ply Horizon did not have power steering, GL was held in by Boots. Had VolksWagon engine. Weak point was the neoprene mounted carb. mount broke a couple of times.

 

Tuesday stopped by Folsom Lake Dodge. Shop Forman/Diesel Specialist said the day after my 2nd test drive another 5 speed 2003 Ram came in with the same complaint, servere vibration on clutch engagement when drive train hot. He called his Dodge contact person in the Bay Area. Dodge said to start by replacing fly wheel, clutch disk and pressure plate and anything else they find. The parts are ordered for not just mine but the other Ram also. They will schedule appointment for repairs as soon as parts are in.

Kinda difficult to ignore when two with the same problem at one dealership at the same time.

CTDCAL are you listening, time for repairs.

Folsom Lake Dodge

 

Folsom Lake Dodge Service Adviser called to report all parts are in for Clutch &amp; Flywheel Transplant. My baby is due for surgery Tuesday.

 

At 5:00 p.m. today, Monday I left my Lt.Almond (Blonde) Beauty in the care of Folsom Lake Dodge for her scheduled Clutch and Flywheel Transplant. Surgery is scheduled for early tomorrow. I saw the list of parts to be transplanted and it looks to be everying within the flywheel housing. I'll be anxiously awaiting their call and the results of the surgery tomorrow afternoon. Not often that one so young needs this thorough a transplant. :'(

 

Now c'mon even tho your truck is like part of the family gotta remember it is still a truck. A cold piece of wallet grabbing steel. Hope all goes well with the repairs.

 

Spots,<br><br>On the positive side I guess one could say that with these new clutch parts installed after such a long delay in diagnosis I will have an extra 10K miles before any future clutch replacement. When that time comes, and I know it will, I am alreadly looking toward a SBC replacement. Can't start doing your home too soon.<br><br>You and 5er keep shade on your head and your brain cool in FL.<br><br>WaitinAroundNowPhil 8) 8)

 

Hope it goes well and they get your baby back to you real fast. You don't know how much you miss it till you can't drive it! <br><br>CTDCAL