Clutch Shudder
 

My 2003 5spd has a clutch shudder on engagement. When the drivetrain is cool there is no shudder. When the drive train is at running temperature for several miles the shudder is pronounced in Reverse and 1st gear starting out under load. If I try to back on a grade, the shudder causes the whole truck to shakes violently at times. When this happens I stop and start over again.

Since I tow my 5er, 11K# it is not possible to start smoothly in 1st or Reverse after towing a few miles.

I've had it in the dealer. The tech who took it for a test drive said it behaved normally, he couldn't duplicate the behavior.

Suggestions appreciated. Thanks. ???

Re:Clutch Shudder
 

Does your truck sit much?? I sort of have the same problem on my '93 after my truck has been sitting for a week or more. When I first drive it the clutch will grab. Sometimes violently almost like someone had hit the truck but it would be a rapid shudder. Then after I work the clutch for a while, it becomes less and less until it is gone. The problem wont come back until the truck sits for a while again. (which is every week ::) )<br>Not exactly the same problem you have described but I thought I would throw it out there any way...

Re:Clutch Shudder
 

Sounds like a warped or hotspotted flywheel, pressure plate or clutchdisk.<br><br>Just like brakes on a car. An overheated or warped clutch will act the same was as brakes do. Basically fine when cold but more pronounced to obnoxious when warm.<br><br>Did you happen to start out in first gear for the first few thousand miles as recommended by the owner's manual? That is a fairly critical step in breaking in a new clutch set.<br><br>Causes of warped or heat crazed conditions are the same as braking. Quick clutch releases, trying to start too much weight in too tall a gear, reving the engine to get the load moving and so on. Quite frankly...easy to do. <br><br>With weight on and putzing around with my chevy I always went into 4 low. It was way easier on the clutch setup. Sort of makes you appreciate the 2 hi 2 low 4 hi 4 low transfer case in the old IH scouts. Would be extremely appropriate and handy in the HD dodge rams with CTD option.<br><br>The clutch disk if oil fouled will shudder when cold and be ok when warm.

Re:Clutch Shudder
 

Try another dealer. THis is a cut and dry repair an no brainer. Clutch plate is shot or flywheel face is warped. I personally get so fed up with the dealers and their, can not duplicate, response. I have had cars that I have had the problem reccur over and over till I sold it and the dealer never was able to fix it because they said, cant be duplicated!!!<br><br>Had a suburban with a squeak in reverse, which usually is a bad u-joint. They said they could never find it and that they had checked the u-joints.<br><br>1000 miles out of warranty I dropped the drive shaft and the rear joint is so rusted it was a matter of time before it broke. this was with just 37,ooo miles.<br><br>Try another dealer. Your not imagining the problem.<br><br>2 cents and some venting!!!!

Re:Clutch Shudder
 

Phil,<br><br>I have the same exact problem with my 4x4 CA SO truck, shudders when warm, but not when it is cold. Does it with a trailer behind or without sometimes, only in 1st, 2nd and Reverse gear starting out. I am looking into it, I am not convinced it is the clutch as I have never thrashed on the clutch in any way. It almost feels like something in the drivetrain is binding up and the truck really starts shaking violently. It will go away as fast as it happens and usually is more pronounced when I am going in reverse and turning. Once it starts doing this it will continue to do it until the truck sits idle for awhile or a long run and then it quits.<br><br>I am not too worried, but am concerned. I will check with my non-dealer mechanic, have him drive the thing and see what he thinks it is. I'll let you know whats up. If it really is the clutch or flywheel I will see if I can replace them myself as I don't trust the dealer to do the work.<br><br>By the way I have 10k on the truck and this problem started at about 6k.<br><br>Perplexed,<br><br>CTDCAL.

Re:Clutch Shudder
 

[quote author=CTDCAL link=board=20;threadid=13959;start=0#131817 date=1051286760]
Phil,

I have the same exact problem with my 4x4 CA SO truck, shudders when warm, but not when it is cold. Does it with a trailer behind or without sometimes, only in 1st, 2nd and Reverse gear starting out. I am looking into it, I am not convinced it is the clutch as I have never thrashed on the clutch in any way. It almost feels like something in the drivetrain is binding up and the truck really starts shaking violently. It will go away as fast as it happens and usually is more pronounced when I am going in reverse and turning. Once it starts doing this it will continue to do it until the truck sits idle for awhile or a long run and then it quits.

I am not too worried, but am concerned. I will check with my non-dealer mechanic, have him drive the thing and see what he thinks it is. I'll let you know whats up. If it really is the clutch or flywheel I will see if I can replace them myself as I don't trust the dealer to do the work.

By the way I have 10k on the truck and this problem started at about 6k.

Perplexed,

CTDCAL.
[/quote]


CTDCAL,

I too have never thrashed my clutch. My rear axle is 4.10 Limited-Slip. I have noticed that on starting unless front wheels are straight, it feels like something is binding, a feeling of thump, thump, thump. This feeling usually accompanies the shudder. It may be connected to the shudder or just a chance coincidence. The thump, thump also occurs on some sharp 20 mph curves. I'm thinking the thump, thump may be in the L.S. differential.

I am concerned about the shudder as it is sometimes severe enough to do damage to the tranny, u-joints, or rear axle. At times the shudder is severe enough to shake out the dentures of passengers, a thought that would be embarrasing.

The dealer has not refused to work on my vehicle, they just want me to come in when the temp is high enough so the tech can observe the behavior. Unfortunately our temperatures have been in the 30s &amp; 40s for the past week, the shudder is not present under these conditions. I have considered hitching up my utility trailer with tractor (5.5K#) in it so they can see its behavior trying to back up a slight grade under load. [eyecrazy]

Thanks all for your help.

Re:Clutch Shudder
 

SierraPhil, I think it may be worth your while to hook it up and visit the dealer. The clutch needs to be fixed. My Mustang shudders sometimes, but its got over 100k on it; and it doesn't do it when I rev it up and let'er rip .........<br><br>Being the devil's advocate, would they/could they say that the clutch is a normal wear-out item like windshield wipers in the hopes of escaping any warranty work/reimbursement?<br><br>And if the manual does indeed say to start in first for the first few thousand miles...... I'm sure you did.<br><br>Let us know how it goes.

Re:Clutch Shudder
 

Phil,

Did a little bit of driving around with my mechanic who used to work at the dodge dealer and now is on his own. He has replaced alot of clutches in the CTD trucks and knows the drivetrain inside and out. I know mechanics are a dime a dozen, but I trust this guy bar none.

With that said, his opinion is that it is not the clutch or flywheel. We were able to make it happen even though it was not that warm out today. Mine seems to do it more often after I have been doing alot of stop and go driving around town for more than an hour or so. Especially when making tight reverse turns when starting out. He thinks it is drivetrain wrap or axle wrap do to the pinion angle in the rear. Mine is a 4x4 with the 3.73's so apparently this is not gear or configuration specific. He tells me that these clutches are very, very strong and good in these trucks and it would take alot to do them damage, which I have certainly not done. He also believes that the tranny and drivelines are not going to be harmed by this phenomenon, but it sure is annoying. We are going to check the pinion angles and he is actually going to watch under the truck when it is happening to see what is really going on. I will keep you posted on our progress.

I have not experienced the thumping you described while cornering, and that definately sounds like it could be the LSD.
The only problem that I have had is the violent shudder under the conditions that I mentioned. My kids (5 &amp; 9 yo girls) asked me the other day, &quot;Dad why does your truck shake so much?&quot;

One way that I have found to overcome some of it is to give it a little more fuel after the clutch is all the way out and it seems to curb it some.

I'll let you know how it goes and good luck with yours!

CTDCAL.

Re:Clutch Shudder
 

Visited the dealers service department. Talked to he head service writer today. I explained I was dissatisfied with the service I had received on the Shudder problem. My dissatisfaction being the result of them not noting the actual conditions when the problem occurred. I explained the actual location where they could duplicate the problem. <br><br>The head honcho noted all this on a service order and asked me to give them another chance to fix the problem. He scheduled an appointment for Monday 5/5. He assurred me he wants to see that the shudder, whatever the cause, is fixed to my satisfaction.<br> ???

Re:Clutch Shudder
 

For what it's worth I have a similar problem with my 92 CTD. It started after about 10k miles. I must have overheated the clutch when backing up my 5er. I was told at the time that Dodge clutches tend to behave this way. I had driven a company Dodge of an earlier vintage and it had the same problem.<br>I replaced the clutch plate at about 60K miles and it was almost like normal, however since then the problem has returned, mostly due to backing up a 34 ft 5er. I would say right now at 100K miles it is due for a whole new clutch.<br>I would say the secret is to take it real easy when slipping the clutch and backing up heavy trailers or with big loads.<br>The faster you engage fully, the less it heats up. I look for pull through sites whenever I can and start up in 1st real easy! <br>May be a problem you have to live with...

Re:Clutch Shudder
 

Sierra,<br><br>When I am backing or in first and under load, I find the truck can start jumping. As you noted, most prominant when hooked up. Mine will even do it backing up my drive when not loaded. I have isolated the occurance to letting the clutch out too quick or too much fuel. If I let it idle and let the clutch out slowly, no problem. I can have this off of a light with the fiver if I let out too quick. I just ease it off and fuel as I feel the clutch taking a smooth hold. For me, it has been learning what to expect out of my truck. I have not noticed any change hot or cold.

Re:Clutch Shudder
 

My experience same as FiverBob's - clutch and fuel timing versus load. I think these trucks have so much torque, timing the realease of the clutch with the fueling of the fuel pedal is different than many are used to. My old '99 was my first diesel and took a little getting used to, and my new '03 is different than the old '99 and took a little re-adjusting to on my part. Since adjusting my clutching technique I have had no more shuddering, warm or cold. FWIW

Re:Clutch Shudder
 

FiverBob &amp; GrandpasRam,
I have tried foot off the throttle, easing clutch out slowly, it shudders with or without load at times. It is almost sure to shudder when engine is at full running temperature.

Today I parked, some twenty minutes later I tried to back out of the parking space. As the clutch started to engage, my truck shook so hard, something rattled like a hammer hitting metal. I know this is not normal. It was more than a shudder, it was grabbing with a rythmn.


[eyecrazy]

Re:Clutch Shudder
 

Sierra have you checked your parking brake for some drag? This would load up the drive train and may contribute to the shudder. Just something to look at??

Re:Clutch Shudder
 

Phil,<br>I am wondering if you have some oil on your clutch plate. Possibly a seal has gone on the front of the tranny. I saw somewhere that one 5 or 6 shooter had lost it's front seal. You gotta quit racing them rice burners, boy. [laugh] [laugh]