1 piece drive line???!!
04-29-2008, 09:30 AM
#16
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well the there is a driveline shop i have been going to for years, the guy is super honest and never over charges me. the do semi drive lines as well as passenger vehicles, and he thought a one piece was the way to go, i'll cal and ask tomorrow if he has had luck in the pas with a one piece. i thought he said thats was the best way to go, but can't remember for sure.
and yes the 08 are all aluminum, he was going to build me a steel 4" for 400 bucks.
and yes the 08 are all aluminum, he was going to build me a steel 4" for 400 bucks.
Did you every price out a driveshaft for an 08? Probably more than $400, but may be a option. I would think they should be a direct replacement for the 2 piece.
04-29-2008, 09:45 AM
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Just a thought!
Are you sure, it is not clutch chatter?
The reason I ask I see you have bigger tires. Are you still running the stock gears in your diffs? Could be your clutch/flywheel has developed hot spots from the tire/gear combo and is causing your clutch to chatter on take off until it is fully engaged. I have seen it happen before.
Are you sure, it is not clutch chatter?
The reason I ask I see you have bigger tires. Are you still running the stock gears in your diffs? Could be your clutch/flywheel has developed hot spots from the tire/gear combo and is causing your clutch to chatter on take off until it is fully engaged. I have seen it happen before.
04-29-2008, 09:55 AM
#18
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Good point - that'd explain why it's worse when the truck is loaded.
Sure - driveline angles are best for the U-joints in the 2-3* range.
You lifted the rear 2"?
I've no doubt that the carrier bearing needs to be dropped.
Sure - driveline angles are best for the U-joints in the 2-3* range.
Posi additive in the rear end? Maybe, but mine got worse with my block install. Leads me to think it's drive angles.
The vib has been in this megacab since new. Although it's been faint. I've always felt it. The dealer said it was normal for a diesel (ya right). However, after adding these 2" blocks to the rear...woooow...it's there now for sure. You know the dealer will blame the blocks though so this is something I'll have to find on my own.
The vib has been in this megacab since new. Although it's been faint. I've always felt it. The dealer said it was normal for a diesel (ya right). However, after adding these 2" blocks to the rear...woooow...it's there now for sure. You know the dealer will blame the blocks though so this is something I'll have to find on my own.
I've no doubt that the carrier bearing needs to be dropped.
04-29-2008, 11:39 AM
#20
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Differential chattering is way different from driveline shudder. Make sure you're dealing with the right one before working on the other.
The differential chatter will be most pronounced when starting out with the front wheels turned right or left and with a heavier load. Its a higher frequency chatter almost a grinding. I fixed it mine with 140 weight oil, but some have added the friction modifier and had good results.
Driveline shudder is caused by a bad angle on the driveline. Front leveling should have no affect on it because it does not change the relationship of the transfer case angle to the rear diff. Only the front driveline angle will be changed and that's not where the problem is.
Back when the transfer case was a divorced design, it had a severe shudder problem. This showed up in Dodges and Internationals. The transfer case was walking around and the fix was to put a solid strut from the case to the frame. I wonder if the modern cases are able to move around just enough to cause the problem? It might be worth checking the case and engine mounts. If you generally run with a lighter load you can also remove the rear lifting blocks. I took mine out about 110,000 miles back and it's fine (I still carry heavy stuff but not all the time) The straighter the driveline angles the less the shudder. I'm sure the axle does wrap up some, as all leaf spring setups do without traction bars, but it's never been a noticeable problem. Look elsewhere for the solution.
John
The differential chatter will be most pronounced when starting out with the front wheels turned right or left and with a heavier load. Its a higher frequency chatter almost a grinding. I fixed it mine with 140 weight oil, but some have added the friction modifier and had good results.
Driveline shudder is caused by a bad angle on the driveline. Front leveling should have no affect on it because it does not change the relationship of the transfer case angle to the rear diff. Only the front driveline angle will be changed and that's not where the problem is.
Back when the transfer case was a divorced design, it had a severe shudder problem. This showed up in Dodges and Internationals. The transfer case was walking around and the fix was to put a solid strut from the case to the frame. I wonder if the modern cases are able to move around just enough to cause the problem? It might be worth checking the case and engine mounts. If you generally run with a lighter load you can also remove the rear lifting blocks. I took mine out about 110,000 miles back and it's fine (I still carry heavy stuff but not all the time) The straighter the driveline angles the less the shudder. I'm sure the axle does wrap up some, as all leaf spring setups do without traction bars, but it's never been a noticeable problem. Look elsewhere for the solution.
John
04-29-2008, 12:19 PM
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A one piece steel driveshaft would be too heavy...ujointed drive shafts actually spin in an eliptical pattern...when properly set up the two ujoints elipses's are 180 degrees off to "cancel out" the transfered vibrations....as you increase the weight of the driveshaft you drastically increase the side load impact on the pinion/output shaft bearing.
When you say "shudder on launch" is it only under hard acceleration??
When you say "shudder on launch" is it only under hard acceleration??
04-29-2008, 04:26 PM
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If you end up going that way keep us posted. I was kind of hoping DC would have a change up kit since the 08s do have a one piece. Obviously enough people had the issue that the decided to fix it on later models, but leave every else struggling with this issue hanging.
Did you every price out a driveshaft for an 08? Probably more than $400, but may be a option. I would think they should be a direct replacement for the 2 piece.
Did you every price out a driveshaft for an 08? Probably more than $400, but may be a option. I would think they should be a direct replacement for the 2 piece.
Just a thought!
Are you sure, it is not clutch chatter?
The reason I ask I see you have bigger tires. Are you still running the stock gears in your diffs? Could be your clutch/flywheel has developed hot spots from the tire/gear combo and is causing your clutch to chatter on take off until it is fully engaged. I have seen it happen before.
Are you sure, it is not clutch chatter?
The reason I ask I see you have bigger tires. Are you still running the stock gears in your diffs? Could be your clutch/flywheel has developed hot spots from the tire/gear combo and is causing your clutch to chatter on take off until it is fully engaged. I have seen it happen before.
A one piece steel driveshaft would be too heavy...ujointed drive shafts actually spin in an eliptical pattern...when properly set up the two ujoints elipses's are 180 degrees off to "cancel out" the transfered vibrations....as you increase the weight of the driveshaft you drastically increase the side load impact on the pinion/output shaft bearing.
When you say "shudder on launch" is it only under hard acceleration??
When you say "shudder on launch" is it only under hard acceleration??
i did check the trann/transfercase mounts and they look solid so iwill get back with you all when i find out prices on stuff..........
04-29-2008, 04:47 PM
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so i have to double check the driveline lenght but from dodge the aluminum one piece is only....get this....260!!!!!!!!!!
finally somethin to be happy about.
well i have to double check the measurement and then order it up tomorrow, i will keep you all posted
finally somethin to be happy about.well i have to double check the measurement and then order it up tomorrow, i will keep you all posted
04-29-2008, 05:23 PM
#24
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I had same problem and went with a custom 1 piece shaft.
I've posted this a few times on other threads...just do a search.
Do a search online for u-joint and/or cardan joint. I've touched upon this in college (BSME) but don't design these on a daily basis at my day job!
I've determined the problem is with the 2 pc driveshaft design DC installed on these trucks. They (engineers at DC) designed the drivetrain where they need to shim the center bearing to make the driveshafts parallel. If the shafts are parallel and the input/output shafts (tranny and axle pinion) are parallel the accel and decel of each cardan joint cancel eachother out. If the shafts are not (improper shim) or if you apply a load in the bed (and change the angle between the driveshafts) you'll get a vibration. So...trying to shim the center bearing ONLY works if you don't load the bed down or go over bumps ... which is a silly design, IMO!
A one piece driveshaft is best because you 1) don't need to fuss with shimming the center bearing 2) have 1 less u-joint that needs maintenance and can fail and 3) easier to setup as you only need to keep both tranny and axle shafts parallel to each other.
Catch is you have a max distance between u-joints by the mfg. Also, the tube needs to be larger diameter to handle the extra rotational stress applied over the length of the shaft.
Again...I've replaced mine with a 1 piece steel shaft and had no problems over 45k miles ... and I've pulled 18k goosenecks from Florida to NJ using Edge on #2 with no issues to date.
Good luck....
I've posted this a few times on other threads...just do a search.
Do a search online for u-joint and/or cardan joint. I've touched upon this in college (BSME) but don't design these on a daily basis at my day job!
I've determined the problem is with the 2 pc driveshaft design DC installed on these trucks. They (engineers at DC) designed the drivetrain where they need to shim the center bearing to make the driveshafts parallel. If the shafts are parallel and the input/output shafts (tranny and axle pinion) are parallel the accel and decel of each cardan joint cancel eachother out. If the shafts are not (improper shim) or if you apply a load in the bed (and change the angle between the driveshafts) you'll get a vibration. So...trying to shim the center bearing ONLY works if you don't load the bed down or go over bumps ... which is a silly design, IMO!
A one piece driveshaft is best because you 1) don't need to fuss with shimming the center bearing 2) have 1 less u-joint that needs maintenance and can fail and 3) easier to setup as you only need to keep both tranny and axle shafts parallel to each other.
Catch is you have a max distance between u-joints by the mfg. Also, the tube needs to be larger diameter to handle the extra rotational stress applied over the length of the shaft.
Again...I've replaced mine with a 1 piece steel shaft and had no problems over 45k miles ... and I've pulled 18k goosenecks from Florida to NJ using Edge on #2 with no issues to date.
Good luck....
04-29-2008, 05:36 PM
#25
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I had same problem and went with a custom 1 piece shaft.
I've posted this a few times on other threads...just do a search.
Do a search online for u-joint and/or cardan joint. I've touched upon this in college (BSME) but don't design these on a daily basis at my day job!
I've determined the problem is with the 2 pc driveshaft design DC installed on these trucks. They (engineers at DC) designed the drivetrain where they need to shim the center bearing to make the driveshafts parallel. If the shafts are parallel and the input/output shafts (tranny and axle pinion) are parallel the accel and decel of each cardan joint cancel eachother out. If the shafts are not (improper shim) or if you apply a load in the bed (and change the angle between the driveshafts) you'll get a vibration. So...trying to shim the center bearing ONLY works if you don't load the bed down or go over bumps ... which is a silly design, IMO!
A one piece driveshaft is best because you 1) don't need to fuss with shimming the center bearing 2) have 1 less u-joint that needs maintenance and can fail and 3) easier to setup as you only need to keep both tranny and axle shafts parallel to each other.
Catch is you have a max distance between u-joints by the mfg. Also, the tube needs to be larger diameter to handle the extra rotational stress applied over the length of the shaft.
Again...I've replaced mine with a 1 piece steel shaft and had no problems over 45k miles ... and I've pulled 18k goosenecks from Florida to NJ using Edge on #2 with no issues to date.
Good luck....
I've posted this a few times on other threads...just do a search.
Do a search online for u-joint and/or cardan joint. I've touched upon this in college (BSME) but don't design these on a daily basis at my day job!
I've determined the problem is with the 2 pc driveshaft design DC installed on these trucks. They (engineers at DC) designed the drivetrain where they need to shim the center bearing to make the driveshafts parallel. If the shafts are parallel and the input/output shafts (tranny and axle pinion) are parallel the accel and decel of each cardan joint cancel eachother out. If the shafts are not (improper shim) or if you apply a load in the bed (and change the angle between the driveshafts) you'll get a vibration. So...trying to shim the center bearing ONLY works if you don't load the bed down or go over bumps ... which is a silly design, IMO!
A one piece driveshaft is best because you 1) don't need to fuss with shimming the center bearing 2) have 1 less u-joint that needs maintenance and can fail and 3) easier to setup as you only need to keep both tranny and axle shafts parallel to each other.
Catch is you have a max distance between u-joints by the mfg. Also, the tube needs to be larger diameter to handle the extra rotational stress applied over the length of the shaft.
Again...I've replaced mine with a 1 piece steel shaft and had no problems over 45k miles ... and I've pulled 18k goosenecks from Florida to NJ using Edge on #2 with no issues to date.
Good luck....
I tried looking under driveline vibration, but yours must have been burried. now the only q is if the new 08 DL will work on the 06's
04-30-2008, 12:11 AM
#26
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You've got my attention. If it'll work mine will be on order.
04-30-2008, 07:03 AM
#27
No joke. I've lived with this long enough. Of course the $260 will still require u-joints. So you'll have more then that in it in the end I bet.
Bought some shims last night. I'm going to try shimming the carrier some and see if that helps, then throw my 5th wheel on it. It's certianly my driveline and not my tranny. In fact...you don't get the shutter in reverse. Another clue I would think.
Bought some shims last night. I'm going to try shimming the carrier some and see if that helps, then throw my 5th wheel on it. It's certianly my driveline and not my tranny. In fact...you don't get the shutter in reverse. Another clue I would think.
05-02-2008, 10:42 PM
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ok so here is the rundown, the 260 figure was off, its like 420 but thats what the drivline shop wanted anyway.
my dad and i got underneath our trucks today and compared DL's.
the front slip yoke has the same part number(aam 5559) the center to center was the same and the rear yoke bc were the same. the measurement we took, so you can too, was from the mating surface of the rear yoke to center of front ujoint at the trasnfercase. 76 inches.
so i ordered one, it will be here in one week.
i will install and report. unless someone from wisconsin wants to drive it to me faster
my dad and i got underneath our trucks today and compared DL's.
the front slip yoke has the same part number(aam 5559) the center to center was the same and the rear yoke bc were the same. the measurement we took, so you can too, was from the mating surface of the rear yoke to center of front ujoint at the trasnfercase. 76 inches.
so i ordered one, it will be here in one week.
i will install and report. unless someone from wisconsin wants to drive it to me faster
05-03-2008, 01:09 AM
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I've got an update also. Did some enquiring today with an SM about the 1 piece shaft, and the partsman overheard us and said DC sent out a bulletin specifically addressing that issue. It stated they are not to replace 2 piece drive shafts wth 1 piece driveshafts to cure launch shudder! Reason why: the bracket used for holding the center bearing will contact the driveshaft under certain load conditions. If thats the only reason, I'll be the first to cut that bracket off with a torch.
Really bugs me that they engineer something to cure the problem, but won't fix all the previous trucks with the issue. Use a cheap excuse to get out of it. Thanks for buying your truck with a chronic problem.
Also priced one out, quoted a fair bit higher than you, with the one week delivery, backordered to wisconsin.
If it actully cures it I may be game, but for now I guess Tinbanger is the guinea pig.
Really bugs me that they engineer something to cure the problem, but won't fix all the previous trucks with the issue. Use a cheap excuse to get out of it. Thanks for buying your truck with a chronic problem.
Also priced one out, quoted a fair bit higher than you, with the one week delivery, backordered to wisconsin.
If it actully cures it I may be game, but for now I guess Tinbanger is the guinea pig.
05-03-2008, 05:19 AM
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the partsman overheard us and said DC sent out a bulletin specifically addressing that issue. It stated they are not to replace 2 piece drive shafts wth 1 piece driveshafts to cure launch shudder! Reason why: the bracket used for holding the center bearing will contact the driveshaft under certain load conditions. If thats the only reason, I'll be the first to cut that bracket off with a torch.
Also priced one out, quoted a fair bit higher than you.
Also priced one out, quoted a fair bit higher than you.
and talk em down, i have an in beings i work at a 4X4 shop so i know they can sell it to you for less than that even, but are willing to go to at least 450
. just tell em that you'll go down the street and get one from the custom DL guy that tactic has worked for us in the past with auto tranny issues so maybe it will work for you as well.anyway guinea pig out, i will keep you all informed