green95

Just for kicks I was researching what would be the ultimate commom man's survival rig. What kind of equiptment to add on,what to carry,ect. I was shocked when I read a "how to build" article sugessting that you should start with a gas powered F150(no it was not on a Ford forum). This article sugessted going with a Carb. and (gasp)points. I left some food for thought comments to say the least.
So if you were faced with the need to take off into no mans land What would your ultimate Truck be like?

torquefan

Interesting topic. I have often thought that a 1st or 2nd gen Dodge diesel would be the ideal platform to build something like that, looking at the durability, simplicity and fuel economy. The only downside I can see is that they are so heavy that they don't have the greatest traction through mud. One addition I would make for sure would be front and rear selectable lockers.

A gasser doesn't really appeal to me, especially a carbureted one.
I hope you get some more input here.

green95

Yeah I'd really like to get peoples thoughts. I dont use my ram daily,and I really want to do something creative,I have no projects right now so I'm giving this Idea some thought.
My goal would be to be able to go approx 1500 miles, around,over or through most anything without the need to seek out fuel. So a 70 gallon aux. tank will be the first purchase. Heavy or not,with the way My truck is set up now,I've made it through some deep slick muck with out issue,I will go for a slightly taller tire when its replacement time,thinking 37x11.5(biggest I dare go without a gear swap)swamper boggers next,loud on pave.but so worth it in the #*%!.(gotta love em but quick wear on the street)
I already have onboard air. so a solar panel and 3to4 storage batteries will be on the list as well as a 7 to 800w inverter. and unfortunately I will have to add a few hundred pounds more in the way of protection. Ever see a forestry truck set-up for firefighting? some cool exoskeletal work on those. 15000 lb.winch of course that would be swappable front to rear is a must. snorkle,and run a stack for the deep water crossing. Electric fan on a switch so it can be shut off in the water.(its hard to cross deep water with a prop. in the front). I will start gatering supplies with the hopes of a spring 12 start.

13FOX

Easy, Power Wagon with a 12v Cummins. I just ordered 2012 PW.

Diesel_Dawg

My survival vehicle is in the pic below. It is a 1986 AM General M35A2C with a 478 cu in multi-fuel engine. I am in the process of adding a 10K lb front mounted PTO winch.

Off Duty

Your build sounds like a cool plan

Now when you say "everything", I'm assuming you don't really mean "everything."
I've found in 40+ years of playing around with 4x4's, buggies and off road bikes, that while some can do many things, nothing does "everything" well.
There's always a little give and take.

So my first question would be, what type of terrain does your 1500 mile journey encompass?

If you're talking about a lot of rock crawling, I'd stick with a smaller rig, such as the Toyota described below.

If it were more mud and sand, then I'd probably opt for a larger rig with more room and a little better comfort on the road.
It all just depends.

That said, I'f I were going to try to build something that did "Everything" well, without having to swap engines, I would probably start with a Toyota Landcruiser diesel. An older 60's series FJ60-62 or 80 series would probably be my choice.

The up side:
- They're rugged, dependable, and the diesel gets rediculous mileage on and off road (mid-high 20's in most cases).
- They're small enough to get through "most" of the tight stuff, big enough to camp in if necessary, and have enough room to haul your gear.

- They're heavy, starting around 6000# and up depending on how it's rigged, but with the right tire and lift combo, will trek through deep mud with ease.

You can find story after story of people trekking these things cross country, from California to Alaska, through Baja and S. America, Brazil, Columbia, yada yada yada....

-They're relatively easy to find and cheap to purchase.

The down side:
- They're slow as a turtle on the highway, 60-70's are about average for anything steady and long distance.
- They share problems with the later model Dodges. D@(&%3 body rot!!
The blasted thing will rust out before you can wear it out!
- Parts availability on some of the diesel engines can be problematic. You're not just going to pop into NAPA and pick up parts for some of the engines.

As for rigging:
Definitely a snorkle if you plan on any deep water crossings.
I like the electric fan idea as well.

Tire selection would again depend a lot on what type of terrain that 1500 miles encompassed?

A tall/narrow with an aggressive tread for primarily mud, slightly fatter for mostly sand, although it'e easier to air down than over inflate, and an AT for a combination of all three.
A 35 on a full size rig would be a minimum for me and with the weight you're talking about, an E rated 37 would probably be an ideal choice.
OBA and solar panels/batteries will certainly aid in your self sufficiency, and I'd consider a small water storage unit as well.

Consider trimming the fenders/raising the bumpers to minimize overhang and reduce entry and departure angles.
The Exo-Skeleton is a great idea again if you'll be doing a lot of close quarter drills
Nerf bars are a must!

Also, the additional weight of the exo, is going to be an issue on sidehills, so again, we're back to the terrain.

And since we're talking about a survival rig, I'd stick with minimal electronics when it comes to making the beast run, and go with a standard transmission vs. and auto, for simplicity and a lack of electronics.

I'd stay away from a gasser all the way around for a ton of reasons:

1- Electronics- Don't want to fool around setting points and having to worry about them getting trash in the unit while water crossing and such.
2- Carbs- If I were going to go "gas", I'd go EFI (no we're back to electronics though).
Carbs require too much attention at varying altitudes.
3- Fuel choices: With the diesel, especially the older models and the Toyota's mentioned above, you have the option to run WVO.
You don't have an option with Gas (that I'm aware of anyway).
4- Dependability/longevity- It's a fact that a diesel engine when properly maintained, will outlive a gasser by about double.
Dependability is a toss up. Both have their issues.

Ok, I'll shut up now

PW's are cool.

I sure wish Dodge would get it's head outta it's back side, and start producing a FS rig to compete with the Suburban, but on a diesel platform!
Think Mega Cab with a topper....all one piece

patdaly

Unimog with a 4BT

Perfection in every way...........

13FOX

PW's are cool! Why I could not turn down ordering one. Especially when it comes with a lifetime powertran warranty!!!!

zthatzmanz28

Current day or or we talking SHTF?

I would think a diesel would be the better survival vehicle..obvious a 12v.

Though the troop transports that run on any fuel could be a serious consideration.

I would want a vehicle that could roll over--through and arouns most anything, so I suppose a pick up truck platform is out.
Give me the 12v and a big welder...

Off Duty

Yeah, that was what I was trying to determine. Are we talking SHTF or just a "go anywhere" utilitarian truck?

The mogs are good, but slow and thirsty, no creature comforts unless you build them in.
Same for the duces.

Andy505

Remember gentlemen, it a situation where you would need this vehicle, it may not be advisable to use it. Not right away at least. You can imagine, you being the only one with an operable vehicle would be the target of many thieves, better equip t ones would have rifles that will easily stop your vehicle in its tracks. Depending on where you live, its probably a good idea to sit tight and wait out most of the population starving or killing each other. Depending on the season of calamity. Summer time people will survive much longer than in the dead of winter. Living in a heavily populated area will probably mean getting out asap (or not living there to begin with) rural area would be much better suited to fend off anyone.

Also, even if you had a vehicle, where would you go where you would be better off? Where would you get fuel? You could aways pump it out of non-running vehicles or fuel station tanks. However, it will only be a short time till the fuel is no good. Even if you got far, on your travels thieves will probably be waiting for you to drive down the road just to steal your transportation, rob you of anything you had and finish you off with a bullet in the head.

Don't forget that a lot of people are evil and the fact that they may be arrested is the ONLY thing keeping them at bay. If nobody is there to stop them, rapes, murders, kidnappings etc. will go through the roof. People will stop at nothing unless you or them is dead.

Being self sufficient is the key, however, being self sufficient BEFORE the poop hits the fan, in my opinion is even more important. Be ready, be vigilant and only if you absolutly HAVE TO use a vehicle to change your location is when I would.

Of course that's not what this thread is about.

My opinion, something with a 12v would be sufficient, no electronics, 5 speed, 4 wheel drive. You don't want anything to big or bulky (still needs to be able to take a beating though). Something that can go fairly fast in case someone else has something that can catch you (other than bullets). High fuel capacity and some protection to anything that could get damaged from small arms fire. Bring only what you need to survive. And be mentally prepared to live of the land, because thats probably what you'll be doing. Food and supplies only last so long.

green95

Awsome keep em coming,Remember we cant predict every circumstance.
"everything" is just a general term,I've spent the last 25 years wheeling a variety of rigs over muti terrains. The goal would be get away,up into the mountians,WTSHTF. If we are running for our lives and are prepared,we should be ok for sometime. I have a few Rifles and keep enough ammo around to stay off any threats. I keep a knockaround .22 with several K rounds for food sourcing. There are many options that we could add and many scenarios we could paint. So how to take What I currently have,and fab it up to travel a Min. of 1500 mi. through mixed terrain, as undetected and reliably as possible. I will gather the best and most common ideas and try to incorporate them into this project. It will be far from perfect and certainly not a show piece when done,But it should be interesting and a lot of fun to build.
I am going to stick with the auto(more than likely a aftermarket unit). I am not using the PCM to control the trans,only 12V to lock the conv. and engage OD. While I believe there are advantages to the Manual,Just imagine Twisting your left ankle or worse breaking a leg and trying to get away.

Off Duty

Andy,

your points are valid and well advised

All the Mad Max and other Hollywood scenarios of thing "after the blast" aren't even close to what we'll likely really encounter.

Those of us living in major metro areas, unless they are very prepared, are going to have a very tough time, at least initially.

Transportation, simply getting around as you mentioned, will be a major feat.
Hunkering down may work, depending on where you are located in the city, but there are problems to that as well.
The key is to get out early (before the SHTF) or as you said, wait a bit, let things stabilize (a very relative term), and then make your move.
Be prepared, physically and psycologically, to do what you have to do to ensure the survival of yourself and your family. Sometimes, that means someone else doesn't, but those are the stark realities of survival.

Those in the more rural areas I believe are going to be in a better position to begin with. Those who live in the snow belt, and those living well remote from "civilization" in other areas, are also more likely, just because of their living conditions, to be better prepared to sit it out.

As a society, we've gotten lazy and soft. I'm guilty as well.
We're too used to having someone else look after us (not guilty there!), and that just won't exist later as we know it now at least.

You mentioned fuel, and although you can steal it, gasoline is easily contaminated, and has a relatively short shelf life, whereas diesel seems a more realistic alternative. Also with a diesel, your fuel options just to make it run, are better, at least with the older motors.

It sounds more like an expo-rig, than a survival rig.
As Andy mentioned, "survival" constitutes far more than the transportation, and your transportation better be dang near bullet proof!

Either way though, the build sounds interesting

And you make a good point when considering the possibility of an injury while making a transmission choice.

I've thought of that before when deciding whether to convert my landcruiser to a 5 speed or keep it auto, and although the "cool" and "fuel" factors are there, along with the simplicity, the fact is, a well built, properly maintained auto will generally do the job!

I love the 5 speed, but sitting in the parking lot style traffic we have around here, sucks as it is!
Add shifting and holding, creeping and crawling to that and...

If you're not using the computer to control your auto, then other than some issues inherrent to automatics, and the parasitic loss caused by an auto, it should serve you well.

With a standard, you can usually still make it work without a clutch, but not in rough terrain where you need precision.
Looking forward to this build.
Subscribed!

OD

macattack_ga

Around this area, Metro DC, you'd want to Shelter-in-Place for a couple of days, then bug out on a dual sport motorcycle like a KLR 250. Even the 2.5ton can not push through the traffic nightmares we get around here on a regular basic. No telling what havoc a real "issue" would cause.

But if you are talking expedition vehicles... well that's another story! A FJ40 with an OM617 on 34" skinny tires pulling light trailer with the same wheels and tires.

SIXSLUG

I knew a guy that used to swap MB 2.4 and 3.0 diesels into the second version of the jeep the military used before going to the Hummer.

The desert scroungers in the SouthWest would buy them and head out into the BLM lands in search of whatever.

They were reliable, economical, easy to work on and pretty good 4 wheelers. Kind of like the old range rovers from wild kingdom times.