Rear Disc Conversion Kits
Rear Disc Conversion Kits
Before I start, I would like to say hi to everyone. My name is Julie and my husband is Jim. I am writing this post to gather information for both of us. We have a 1996 2500 Dodge Ram Cummins. I will add that it is jet black. <br><br>We have noticed that the front brakes wear extremely quick. Jim drives about 30K miles a year just to work. We make trips out of state that put even more miles on the truck. On every vehicle that we have and do own, we always buy the best pads. We noticed that by the time that the truck gives indications (a small slight noise) that the pads are wearing down, the rotor already has a grove in it. Of course the rear brakes haven't worn at all. We have decided that we will just get on a regimit to change the pads every 3 months so that we are not constantly changing the rotors with the pads. However, it would be nice to extend the life of the pads.<br><br>The only way we can think of doing this is by converting the rear drums to disc brakes. Although we are pretty much self sufficent when it comes to automotive work, we have no experience with rear disc conversion kits. We have a lot of questions. My husband has given me the task to find out information about this.<br><br>We need to know where to purchase the conversion kit from. We also need to know what advantages or disadvantages that we will face with the conversion kit. We have ABS and it is important that the conversion kit will allow us to keep the ABS because of the snow/ice that we get here in Colorado. We assume that the drum will not be used once we do this conversion kit but in reading some of the information about these conversion kits, it implies that the drums are still used. This confuses both of us. Can someone explain what will stay on the rear brakes and what will go. What will be added? Are the rotors, pads and even the calipers replaceable at the local automotive store when they wear out?<br><br>Well, I will wait for your reply and go off to the RV section.
Re:Rear Disc Conversion Kits
Hi Julie. Welcome.<br><br>I wasn't sure of your motivation to change out to rear disc brakes.<br><br>Changing to rear disc's won't necessarily improve front brake rotor and pad life. As you've seen, rear brakes don't contribute nearly as much to stopping a vehicle as the front brakes. <br><br>What do you mean by having the best pads? The hardest? softest? Most expensive? Harder pads last longer, but are tough on the rotors. Softer pads have a shorter life but aren't as rough on the rotors.<br><br>I'm not sure of your driving habits, but you may just want to focus your energies on putting the best possible rotors upfront and trying out some different front brake pads.<br><br>I can't help you much on doing the conversion, but have seen some fellows do it on Fox body Mustangs. Its doable, but nothing that I would want to screw around with.
Re:Rear Disk Conversion Kits
Julie, <br><br> I think you may find your best investment would be a high quality exhaust brake, rather than the high expense of the conversion.<br><br> It will relieve a great deal of the load on the stock brake system and take away that run away truck feeling you can get when towing with an automatic.<br><br> I have just finished a complete install on the Pac-Brake turbo mount unit and have been testing it. I can tell you that I honestly don't know how I drove my truck all these years without it.<br><br> There are several other people here who can tell you that they go over 100,000 miles on their brakes without replacement because of the exhaust brake. I am certain those are standard transmission trucks, but I have no doubt the savings would be comparable in the automatic equipped trucks proportionately.<br><br> Look for my article to go up very soon in the technical article section, it includes pictures and of the install and my views on this wonderful product.<br><br>Lary
Re:Rear Disc Conversion Kits
Julie:<br>Someone on the site, from BC, I think, was making conversion kits for the rear disc brakes. Perhaps you could do a search.<br><br>The recommendations about the exhaust brake are also good.<br><br>One of the main reasons for the early wear of front vs rear is maladjusted rear shoes. Make sure that you do a few "panic" stops in reverse every day or so to wake up the adjusters. Also, several members here manually adjust the rear shoes with every oil change. You might think about taking off the drums, cleaning the self-adjusters, and using anti-seize on them.<br><br>Good luck,<br>george
Re:Rear Disc Conversion Kits
Julie (and Jim),
I did forget to add, that if you were planning to get the disk brake for Jim as a late Christmas present, or a birthday present - I think its a great idea........
BUT, to answer your initial questions; I've never seen a conversion on a Dodge Ram, but some of the things you'll probably be removing will be:
- the brake drums (you won't use them on the truck again).
- the backing plates on the ends of the axle tubes, the old ones will be removed for the new ones that are configured to hold the disc calipers.
- possibly new brake lines. Bleeding the brakes are required.
- yes, the new system will need a means to utilize the ABS.
- A new Emergency brake will be required. The current E-brake will disappear with the drums/backing plates. Its a bad thing if you omit the E-brake; and if you ever need to get the truck inspected, it will require the emergency brake.
- possibly a new proportioning valve.
- It may depend on the conversion kit, but the Master cylinder may or may not be sufficient with the new brakes. (could be just a Mustang thing)
- with luck, the kits will have all the little unforeseen parts that inevitably become major issues at 10pm Sunday night when the job is half finished.
Some good questions to have answered before you lay out any cash, is like you mentioned: where can you purchase replacement pads, disc's when required. And when they say yes its easy, call Autozone/Pep Boys, etc. and ask.
Disk brakes are great, and have their advantages, but bear in mind that it isn't a low dollar mod.
And as Smokey says, drum brakes aren't bad, but do need to be properly adjusted and broken-in for long life and good performance.
Hope this helps.
I did forget to add, that if you were planning to get the disk brake for Jim as a late Christmas present, or a birthday present - I think its a great idea........
BUT, to answer your initial questions; I've never seen a conversion on a Dodge Ram, but some of the things you'll probably be removing will be:
- the brake drums (you won't use them on the truck again).
- the backing plates on the ends of the axle tubes, the old ones will be removed for the new ones that are configured to hold the disc calipers.
- possibly new brake lines. Bleeding the brakes are required.
- yes, the new system will need a means to utilize the ABS.
- A new Emergency brake will be required. The current E-brake will disappear with the drums/backing plates. Its a bad thing if you omit the E-brake; and if you ever need to get the truck inspected, it will require the emergency brake.
- possibly a new proportioning valve.
- It may depend on the conversion kit, but the Master cylinder may or may not be sufficient with the new brakes. (could be just a Mustang thing)
- with luck, the kits will have all the little unforeseen parts that inevitably become major issues at 10pm Sunday night when the job is half finished.
Some good questions to have answered before you lay out any cash, is like you mentioned: where can you purchase replacement pads, disc's when required. And when they say yes its easy, call Autozone/Pep Boys, etc. and ask.
Disk brakes are great, and have their advantages, but bear in mind that it isn't a low dollar mod.
And as Smokey says, drum brakes aren't bad, but do need to be properly adjusted and broken-in for long life and good performance.
Hope this helps.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re:Rear Disc Conversion Kits
Welcome Julie & Jim!<br><br>I too am interested in a disc conversion for my 95, but nothing to do with pad life. I just want it for the simplicity, and brake-hp dissipation capacity increase discs yield over drums (typical a 3-5 fold increase). There is one guy selling a kit using off the shelf parts, but costs $2K+. You would need to change the drum backing plates to caliper mounts, modify the parking cable assembly, change master cylinder (probably proportioning valve/metering block), modify brake lines, and of course buy calipers & rotors. Don't know about interfacing ABS with this conversion, although the newer RAMs have it.<br><br>The drums you refer to are probably parking brake drums. There are several different methods of parking brake actuation w/rear discs. Ford used to have a drum & shoe setup right at the end of the transmission/xfer case. Some systems use a mechanically actuated caliper on each rotor. Not sure, but believe they now use a rotor w/an integral internal (small) drum w/brake shoe for parking brake. Regardless of method, the parking brake setup adds complexity & $$$.<br><br>Your short pad life is partially due to the front weight and necessary brake bias to the front. The diesel trucks weigh more in the front end than some other trucks at both ends! That said though, you may have rear shoes that are out of adjustment. I found that alone makes a huge difference in braking, though it would not seem to on a vehicle with only ~15% braking on rear (typically). Later model RAMs (98 up I think) used a larger rear wheel cylinder (same as on the 3500) to give additional rear brake bias. Note - the later trucks also came w/a rear weight sensing proportioning valve which offsets the increased rear bias when the truck is empty (to prevent excessive rear brake lockup). I changed to the larger cylinders (but don't have the weight sensing valve), which did give somewhat better rear braking. I thought it may induce excessive lockup (which was already a problem unloaded, especially in rain, going downhill). Oddly, I found braking to be more consistent, w/less lockup. I have not noticed a large difference in front pad wear though. I use my truck in my work, so it constantly has ~1000+ lbs of tools, etc in it. Sometimes it has much more. I live in mountains of NC (though nothing like yours in Co), and travel extensively on winding narrow backroads. I change front pads at ~40K mi, although there is usually much pad left even then. I do have a manual transmission which does help.<br><br>I have found the rear self adjusters on my truck to be extremely problematic. They rarely work properly for very long. Some people here have no problems, others only occasionally. The go-fast backwards-slam on brake routine doesn't seem to work on my truck. I usually punch the parking brake just before slowing to a stop (in a parking lot), reverse, tap brake, repeat as needed. Even so, after a few months, the adjusters will cease to work. Then it's time to jack up the rear and manually adjust the shoes. If the shoes don't get too loose, the self adjusters seem to work ok. Once the clearance reaches a certain point howver, nothing seems to help except the old brake spoon routine (in my experience).<br><br>I run Porterfield Kevlar R4S pads & shoes, which seem to work best for me. Others here use various other brands, and are happy with them. Note - the rear drums on 2500s are actually 3" wide, though the shoes are 2.5" wide. Conceivably, one could go to 3" shoes for more brake capacity (swept area). I had even considered swapping to the 3500 drums, which use 3.5" wide shoes. Decided not worth the cost & effort though.<br><br>Good luck with your truck & welcome abaord!<br>Sorry for the l-o-n-g response...<br>-Scott
Re:Rear Disc Conversion Kits
http://dodgeram.org/tech/mods/brake/rear_disc.htm<br>http://tsmmfg.com/2682.htm<br>http://www.pavementsucks.com/tech/reardisk.php<br><br>When I have researched this I found it to be cost prohibitive. It was gonna be around 2K to do the conversion.<br><br>You really should look hard at the rear brakes. Something's not adjusted correctly.<br><br>Chris<br>
Trending Topics
Re:Rear Disc Conversion Kits
Maybe its her truck...<br><br>Anyway. I assume you have an automatic or you dont downshift with a manual. One of our trucks has gotton 80000 miles on the orignal stock break pads. Its the twin of my truck. Both of us downshift though. I understand from people ive talked to that with autos they blow through pads every 25000 miles or so. I will say though that the breaking power of this trucks is pritty poor. I had been looking at EGR break up grades for the front and they also offer a rear roater conversion. Its not cheap though if i rember right its like $600+ for the front kit alone. the site is http://www.earthroamer.com/egr/index.html Also at http://www.earthroarmer.com there is a review on the break set up. I've called EGR and talked to the guy who runs the place befor. He seems to have an idea of what hes doing. I totaly agree with the exhaust break system and I think it would be a tremendious help. As far as adjusting your rear pads, I just roll backwords down a steep hill.. usually at a light.. and slam on the breaks. I do this once in a while and it seems to be keeping them inline. our other truck is about ready to change the rear pads at 180000 miles, still the originals. I hope this helps you out some at least. <br>Chris
Re:Rear Disc Conversion Kits
I just changed my rear pads at 130k and they looked like new. I changed them for a different set. I got them for free from a guy who sold his truck and forgot to give the guy his extra set of brakes. I knew when I saw the rear brakes that they spent a lot of time not touching the drum.<br>DM01
Re:Rear Disc Conversion Kits
I did the EGR brake conversion larger rear wheel cylinders Rear carbon kevlar shoes front the rest of kit discribed in <br>http://www.earthroamer.com/egr/index.html this was one of the best upgrades that I did not cheap about $1200 but truck stops very well and pads are suposed to last 2-3 times longer. It has been alout 25k miles and just barely worn will get at this rate atleast 50-60k out of them. Price included s/s brake lines not hard to install everything. Hope this helps.<br>I was having a terrible time with brake pulling either left or right never knew what direction it would go. I would eat front pads also, went through 5 sets of pads in 50k miles. Now truck stops straight.<br>Denny
Re:Rear Disc Conversion Kits
First of all, we have done many brake jobs on lots of vehicles and trust me that we have never seen this before. We are adjusting the rear brakes right. We even make sure the measure the drums and then adjust the shoes to make sure that they are very close before doing fine adjustments. This is odd.<br><br>However, driving habits... We live on the frontrange of Colorado, thus most of the miles are not in the mountains and most of the time the truck is not loaded. Since we have a diesel, the bulk of the weight is at the front of the truck. We figured that by changing out the rear brakes to discs, it may help to have the front brakes live longer. We are not sure how much longer but it will help them to live longer. We have an automatic, so brakes don't last as long as they would if it was a manual. On our manual vehicles, the brakes last a long time.<br><br>As far as the pads, it is the best and most expensive that CarQuest carrys. I am sure that they are not soft pads.<br><br>I will talk to my husband about the exhaust brake but I am sure that he will want the rear disc conversion. Here in Colorado, there are towns that he has to drive through where exhaust brakes are outlawed due to noise levels. <br><br>My husband, when it comes to his truck or things he wants... He is spoiled rotten. If he wants the rear disc conversion, he will get it, if he wants something for the truck and there is a good reason he gets it. Heck, he gets things that he thinks he can live without but I think we need. His ex said that he was a man that had to have his toys. Well, he didn't have toys until we got together. Now he has lots of toys plus a want-to-be mechanics helper.<br><br>
Re:Rear Disc Conversion Kits
DHeadington,<br><br>Boy you just described out problem. Our truck does pull to the left like crazy. Did the day we bought it. The dealer said that they would fix it and they never really did. It would go away right after a brake job and then slowly come back. Eats the front brakes like crazy. <br><br>If you didn't want to do an EGR due to city laws outlawing them from use, what mods would you do?<br><br>Do you think it is possible to modify the rear and get the pulling to stop? I saw that the web site stated that the larger wheel cylinders and the shoes would be enough or does it require the EGR too?<br>
Re:Rear Disc Conversion Kits
[quote author=Julie H link=board=5;threadid=10883;start=0#104874 date=1045277198]<br>I will talk to my husband about the exhaust brake but I am sure that he will want the rear disc conversion. Here in Colorado, there are towns that he has to drive through where exhaust brakes are outlawed due to noise levels. <br>[/quote]<br><br>The exhaust brake on our trucks is quite a bit different then the big rig "Jake Brakes".<br>The big rig ones are engine retarders as well as exhaust brakes.<br><br>The ones that are banned are the big rig ones, the ones on out little diesels make nothing more than a hissing sound as the exhaust tries to get past the butterfly valve.<br>Don't worry about noise with them.<br><br>phox
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re:Rear Disc Conversion Kits
[quote author=Julie H link=board=5;threadid=10883;start=0#104881 date=1045277857]<br><br>Do you think it is possible to modify the rear and get the pulling to stop? I saw that the web site stated that the larger wheel cylinders and the shoes would be enough or does it require the EGR too?<br><br>[/quote]<br><br>The 3500 rear cylinder swap didn't do a lot for "pull" on my truck. The kevlar shoes made the biggest difference, along with maintaining same lining clearances L-R. I found much of the brake pull my dealer couldn't fix wasn't in the front, so much as the rear shoes. Because of the servo effect designed into drum systems, even small fricitonal differences between L & R side shoes, whether due to uneven wear/clearance etc, will be multiplied and manifest itself as pulling L/R. I found semi-metallic shoes to be worst offenders for this, especially when hot (due to their aggressive hot friction coefficient). If one adjuster keeps slightly tighter than the other, it will pull. Never could predict which direction my truck would go under warm/hot braking before. Now, is much better, but still never perfectly straight on. That's a trait of drum brakes unfortunately. Remember, anything you do to increase fricition force in a drum system can lead to even more problems. As the drum heats, it expands. As it expands, the shoe's contact patch actually decreases. This leads to localized heating, shoe outgassing, fade, and further heating. IE, shoe fade, which just biases the front discs even further (faster pad wear).<br>If you think it's bad on these trucks, try it on an old car w/4 wheel drums! My old 66 GTO had front drums. Stopping was an exercise in steering and praying, to say nothing of underwear changes... Front discs made BIG difference.<br><br>Regards,<br>-Scott


