Nor_Cal_Angler

with that being said, first let me say.....

Hello to all...and thanks for creating a wonderful forum. i have been doing a lot of reading and the info is great.

ok so here is the problem....i know after doing my own research i will be going the cummins route...not duramax or powerstroke....but which year or years are the one(s) to go with it.

i really have NO previous knowledge of the diesel market..other than i vol. with a FD and am an engineer who drives a Detroit hooked to an allison....i do a daily inspection (when on duty) but that consistes of looking at it (for the most, visual inspection of various components) checking fluids, batteries, hoses, frames, steering boxes, air brakes, intakes and exaustes, etc...we have an offsite mechanic that does the majors when needed.

so i guess what i am saying is i am a GAS guy....i can to some degree wrench on them and have done some bolt on work to my truck...(99 gmc, serria 1500 5.3L,417 rwhp, 532' lbs of tq 12.82 sec 1/4 mi)

after my own reasearch, i have found that when looking to buy(used) i should pay attention to oil changes (5-7.5k), radiatior flushes (50k) and valve adj (90k) as long as those servecies have been done and the truck "looks" like everything is sound there isnt really much to worry about.

but i read here that Lift pumps, inject pumps, fuel pressure issues, something about VP44 and some thing about different blocks being historically bad are some concerns ("53")

can any of you help a NEWBIE to the diesel world out....what should i REALLY know about these trucks......i am targeting the 99-02 class 24v....

thanks in advance

Nor_Cal_Angler...Jake

Mcmopar

The 99-02 trucks have the VP44 injectionpump and lift pump that can be a problem. If you have a fuel pressure gauge on the truck, and monitor the FP you can "protect" the VP44 from running with no FP. Some people say the VP 44 is not very reliable???? I know of more than 1 with over 160 K on them. Cary a spare lift pump and you should be fine. You can get "big line" kits to help supply fuel and/or relocate the FP. Yes, there is a "53" block. I have had more than 1 with no problems?? I don't know what to say about that one?? The KDP can be an issue, just tab it and don't worry about it ever again. Check the front of the engine, if there is a lot of extra oil down low, BEWARE!!

Many, many people get big HP out of these trucks, run them everyday and have little to no issues, so if you find a nice one, I would get it.

JD Dearden

They all have their issues but the Cummins by far has the least.

dieselfuelonly

I would get a 12v for sure for you're first truck, because if you get a 24v then you'll just end up wanting a 12v later .

*no hard feelings to you 24v guys *

IF you would give a 12v some thought, though I see you are looking at 24v's, then a '97 seems to be the best year for them.

Whichever way you choose to go, I think you'll be happy. So enjoy!

Scramblinman

The VP44 is just too much of a crapshoot for me. If I had one, I would always try to have enough $$$ available to replace it and be forever worried about it failing at some completely inopportune time.

After doing a little research when I first started looking at CTDs, I decided it was going to be either a 12v 2nd Gen or HPCR 3rd Gen for me.

CSAGrey1

If you can find one in good condition and can afford to pay cash what it is worth (hard to reasonably finance a 12V) get yourself a 98. I surely wish I had......

Box5

My 12v makes me smile everytime I drive it... Even a 94' seems like a new truck to me, as far as looks, condition, and drivability. So i'd say get urself any year 2nd gen 12v, althouth the 96-98 12v's especially 5spd's with the bigger pump are easier to get more power out of. I can't compare a 24v or 3rd gen (never had one), but mine is all I could ask for in a daily driver/heavy tow rig.

Junk Man

I found my 24v before a 12, got a good deal & bought it. I'm in the process of fixing the major problem areas fuel, steering, slight door rust. I only need to occasionally pull a 4k boat but like to shift & get a grin everytime I get in. My other cars are for play also. Find a decent truck at a good price & buy it.

Nor_Cal_Angler

thanks for the replies....it seems that most are saying go 12v....

why??? would be my question...what is the differences and gains or losses of going the other way....24v...it it more or less prone to problems.

as well most of you in your sig box have mentioned KDP and as well MCMopar you mentioned to "tab" it, thanks but what is it...maybe an abreavation (sp) i just am not familiar with...

thanks for the input...i appericate it.....but, and i dont mean this in ANY way to be disrespectfull to you all....but lets put Personal Preference aside and say WHAT REASONS are there that would prevent a person from going with a USED 12v or 24v....

ohh and to put throw a little more info on my decision out there....this IS NOT for pumping up....adding HP or TQ.....and will be a daily driver (pretty much left as stock as i can) with moderate use as a tower....6500-7000# boat...maybe 20-30 times a year...that is the reason....for the boat....i dont want to buy a used gas with 100-150k get like 11 miles to the gal. and deal with its problems and only expect to get like another 100k max...i would rather invest in something that if i take care of it.....i can get the possibility of 500-600 maybe more.

thanks again.....all of the info is great.

NCA

ps explain VP44 if you could please...i noticed almost all of you mentioned it...and MCMopar...thanks for the INFO...what exactly is excessive oil around the front of the engine....its those little things that i need to know before i make my decision.

TxDiesel007

OK VP44 and Lift pump

the VP44 is the injection pump on the 24 valve truck, it is prone to failure if u dont monitor fuel pressure, and if you dont keep up with the Lift pump, if the lift pump goes, teh truck still runs, and ull never know it, but the injection pump is on borrowed time, many times tho, both go at the same time..

12V and 500-600 horse power? and dailydriveable? oh yeah it can be done, look at my sig... why are we 12V guys so biased to our trucks? im not doggin the 24V, but the 12V is easier to work on, u can do everything with simple hand tools, and has proven to be almost bulletproof with that P7100 injection pump, yes the 96-98 manuals had the better pump at 215 horses stock, otehrwise known as the 913 or the 887 pump...

KDP, killer dowel pin, a common problem on the 12 valve engines, well its not a problem, its more of a concern, the KDP can fall out with engine vibration and cause massive crankcase damage if you are unlucky, so people Tab it with a small either homemade tab, or buy the KDP repair kit from TST, i highly reccomend the kit...

Personally, i love both, the 12v and 24v cummins trucks, i drive a 12 valve cause it was within my price range, and well, i got lucky with what i got, well jsut leave it at that, I wouldnt hessitate to drive a 24v tho, BUT id keep up with fuel pressure like crazy, and monitor it.. The 24 valve is great, sounds great, and can be tuned with boxes, and chips, and power levels can be adjusted, wheras on a 12 valve, ur right foot is ur power control, once u set the pump at where u want it, there is no incab control, (although some are workin on it as we speak)

Towing for your truck? oh lordy 7500 lbs a cummins will barely break a sweat, thats barely a warmup for the truck at best.. the cummins will easily tow ur load, but again, u will wind up moding the truck... an old coworker of mine has 400K on the ticker on his and guess what, still truckin, hows that for influence?

Rick

old 300

Well he goes; I think after owning 1 diesel and driving them for years I would say go gas. I know you guys are probably thinking "what a nut" but that's my opinion. You are going to pay a lot more money to buy the truck, new or used. The other thing is if you buy a good gas truck and look after it you will get a few hundred thousand miles out of it. And if you need a motor job it will cost you way less.
Maintenance cost alone the 5.9 takes what 10-12 quarts of oil, a fuel filter that can cost 10's of $ and the same goes with the air filter. Get a v-8 chev or whatever and the cost is cut to about 40%. I know a guy with a v-10 ford and another that has a 6 litre chev. They work great and will go just as far $ for $ . I own a 01.5 5.9 and love it. That being said A buddy was driving from P.E.I. to New Brunswick Canada on the 13 km long bridge when the truck died. A quick tow to the dealer and a lift pump and vp-44, the bill came to $5000.00. Another buddy has an 02 that the trans. took a dump and that was another $6000.00. That's Canadian $$$ but that is what will be coming out of my pocket and it just doesn't seem worth it. I think my next will be something small enough that I could put on the back of the old Dodge. Anyway that being said I just think unless you are going to be driving many miles a year or towing heavy loads all the time, why spend the extra money to get a diesel.
I prices a new ford power stroke the other day and the diesel option was $8900.00 and then $1900.00 for the transmission that goes with.

Box5

@old300, another reason to get a 12v 5spd. Diesel's will always be more expensive up front, but you could end up buying a lemon gasser and have to invest a ton of money. Gas milage alone was a big factor for me, and being able to tow without struggling like a 350 v8 with even 6k lbs was another huge plus. I will say the chevy 3/4 ton with the 350 v8 I had never gave me a single problem other than overheating once in the winter when the water pump froze (probably my fault for not enough anti freeze). But it wasn't fun to drive, and it was plain nerve wrenching to tow with. If it was just used for puting gravel in the bed, or similar task's thats fine, but it still got 11mpg empy on the highway. The cummins I have got 16 with a heavy foot in the city, and should be alittle better now that I got a few things cleaned up. I imagine 20 or so on the highway which is great for all the power is has.

caper

Ya , and ya can't burn furnace oil in a gasser.

Nor_Cal_Angler

Wonderful...thats exactly what i was looking for......two great things i got out of that....

1st..tx007 thanks for the wonderful explaination....VP44 got it....and KDP..understand that as well...(no need for crank case issues)...btw i didnt mean i would like to get 500-600 hp as a daily driver..my comparision was 500-600k -v- 300k out of a gas...another big thing you mentioned...easier to work on...this is a plus for me...being that i A. dont know much about them and B. easier to work on usually means less in dues to my favorite american mechanic....as well i already knew as you pointed out...my towing issues didnt matter with either motor but thanks again...side note i did read here that someone with the "53" block (brizillian block, right????) said due to "thinner walls on the block" it is prone to crack under loads and especially under load while going uphill....any truth or is it an issue?

2nd...old300 i really appericate your honesty...go gas and i do see the reasoning....but my fears are your points as well....i see spending money either way i go...up front costs with the diesel poss. spending 3-5k on fuel pump issues, tranny issues, etc....but there again just as u pointed out the same can be said about a gas with like miles....how honest do you expect people to be now-a-days when selling thier vehicles???? what happens when i buy that 96' chevy with the 454 and 3k into it the tranny goes, or the head gasket fails and i leak down and rust the cyl. or crack the block, what happens when i change the alternater and then the WP goes,and the radiator goes after that and so on and so on....it is a crap shoot either way....the thing i dont like is if i go gas i am STUCK like you said (which i knew) 11mpg no better no less...under load or not....and when i use it as a daily driver why settel with 11mpg when i could get 16-18 mpg..and when i tow i could get better...

box5 i again see the same things....and i appericate it...but just as u said, why struggle....350 or 454 when you need the towing it just might not be there...i do agree that the 350 block has NEVER been a problem for me....as mentioned above i own a gas 5.3l gm block...and previous to that it was a 92 350, 97 350, and i owned two at the same time the 99 5.3l and 00 5.3l not one of those trucks gave me a problem....other than the 92 had a starter and the 97 had a fuel filter issue...both cheap and easy fixes....but i hated being passed at 55 by a 18 wheeler and the feeling of comming to a stop in a 1500 with that load at that time it was only 4k behind me now it is 6.5k that is another reason i want to step in to a 2500...bigger truck, another reason i dont think a gas is the right move is weight of the vehicle (i guess not with a 2500 gas) but when i would tow and got hit by a gust of wind...i would get the push big time....the boat caught the wind and the truck would follow...sometimes scary stuff...

any ways rambleing on now so.....to end i really appericate it...it is food for thought for sure...keep the ideas and reasons comming i really want to look at it from all angles....

any suggestions about the trannies.....i never hear anything good about dodge trannies....my father had a 2500 ram van 96 and tranny went out at 65k now he has a durango 99 with 98k and it has never had a problem...is it hit or miss..or are there things i should know about and look for....

thanks

NCA

fbx22

never had any issues with the lift pump. (*knocks on wood so it doesnt go out tomorrow *) unless the prior owner replaced it already. And you say valve adjustments at 90k. Im not sure about the others but IIRC the cummins doesnt need it until 150k....lets see here I'll check the handy dandy auto program I have here.......oh it says 135k either way its more than 90k for a cummins at least Ford seems to be having lots of issues lately so if its not a 7.3 powerstroke Id walk away...no better yet I'd run!