rstl99

Hi all,
I'm casually looking for a suitable Dodge Cummins to carry my recently acquired 10foot Alaskan camper (non-cabover model) and came across this one locally. 97, 2WD, automatic, with Firestone 5,000 pound air bags, bilstein shocks all around, 4:10 diff, has been used for slide-in camper, and more recently a 5th wheel. Used to drive down to Florida every winter so has never seen snow/salt. Only rust is bottom of right front fender, behind the wheel - owner says it's because the way the AC drain is located (?).

About 150,000 miles on it, lots of service records (he's the original owner, who's 70 and no longer needs the rig - he bought a place in Florida). Last fall he had service on the front axle (rotors, pitman arm, idler arm, outer tie rod). Said it's the second time he's had front end work done on it. Original exhaust. Tires will need replacement in a year or so. Original transmission, he had it drained and flushed 3 times and bands adjusted. Liner in the box, it's an extended cab (small seat in the back) very clean inside.

Truck drove very well on the highway, very stable. Couldn't tell if the transmission was slipping or not (haven't driven many of these Dodge/Cummins trucks at this point). O/D seems to work.

Very clean truck. He's asking $10,000. I'm in the North-east, so specimens like this don't come along too often. I offered $8500. What do you think?

mariner

Two things come to mind immediately - over and above the usual considerations when buying used.

1) A 1997 truck will mean it is a 12V Cummins engine that, hopefully, has been well maintained. The 12V suffererd from "KDP" or Killer Dowel Pin - locating dowel pin if the engine timing gear cover that worked itself loose and felll into the casing - smetimes causing some serious damage. The owner might have had this rectified and he may not even be aware of it. Do a search on KDP and you will come up with lots of posts in this. If caught in time it is easily rectified and a relatively simple DIY project if you are handy around machinery.

2) The 12V engine is the easiest and cheapest to modify and increase power and does not have the VP44 fuel pump. Purely mechanical and much more reliable fuel injection pump - a lot of Dodge owners would give their right arm for a nice '97 12V truck.

There are a lot of other considerations and many will chime on them. Certainly worth thinking about - if a 4x4 even more so (can't remember if it is 4x4 or 4x2).

I doubt that is the cause of the rust (AC drain) - but it is possible. Has he had any dings on the front that you are aware ? I know the AC drain does put out quite a bit of liquid (condensate) and has had me thinking I have a ful leak somewhere - on more than one occasion.

!50,000 miles isn't a lot - especially if most of them are highway miles - engine is barely broken in :-) Any signs of blowby from the valve cover oil fill cap, when open ?

Sounds like this might just be a real good buy - you won't need to worry about carrying your camper.

HTH

mariner

rstl99

Thanks for the quick response!
It is a 4x2 and not 4x4. I don't envision trips off the beaten path with my slide-in (will be on roads of some kind, even if gravel), so 2WD will be ok. I figure it makes for less complicated (and expensive to repair) drivetrain.

Yes, I'd like a 12v if I can help it, and had read about KDP (didn't ask the seller about it, he just said he didn't need to have anything done to the engine, so may not know about it). Didn't see indications of blowby, but forgot to lift the oil fill cap to check...

No sign of collision anywhere, and he said he never was in any accident with it. Looks like a very careful and PM-conscious older man, who just doesn't need the truck any more.

I was hoping to get something in the Spring, but this came on the market and has me thinking (even though I'd just put it up for the winter). He said the choke doesn't seem to engage and would have to be looked at. Everything else seemed work when we test drove it. I was thinking of getting something a little cheaper, but this may be too good to pass up, in this condition (I'm in the snow/salt belt!).

I attach a pic of the rust spot on the front fender, the only one anywhere on the truck.

Cheers.

Clayten

The choke does not engage! Diesels don't have chokes. Wonder what he meant by that?

Hodge

$10,000? Are they that much higher in Canada/where you are located? Maybe they are, and that has to be considered. Here, that is an outrageous price. What is the loan value there for it?

Silver Ram

I got $6000 out of my 1996 4X4 SLT standard cab in the same condition. It had 175,000 on the clock. Where were you when I was selling it. I sure would have liked to have got $8000 out of it.

mariner

The price of most things are outrageous up here in Canada. Car and truck parts are expensive for the most part - even with shopping around. The same pretty much goes for vehicles.

Some examples:

Fuel injectors for the 6.9 IDI in the Ford trucks - in Canada $50 each, in US $22 each.
Vacuum pump for the Ford 6.9 diesel(1986) - Canada $321, in the US $113
Replacement OEM fuel lift pumps for the Cummins engine are around $300 in Canada - the same pump out of the US can be had for $117.
Auto trans. oil inline filters - in the US $16 and in Canada $50 - $55 each.

These are just a few items that I have purchased lately (last 6 months) so the prices will not have changed much at all. The beauty of the US is the huge selection available resulting in much more competitive pricing all around. The prices are about right and the dollar is almost on par at +/- a couple of cents.

The same thing applies right across a whole range of goods - pretty much everything s cheaper in the US. Of course, if you don't shop around then one can always pat outrageous prices regardless of where you live.

mariner

gorms

For the area, that is a VERY clean truck. I'd make sure that oil isn't from the rear main, probably from pan. Take a good look at the front cab mounts, they like to collect all the bad stuff and rot from the inside out. Look at door bottoms for ANY peeling/rust, same with rocker panels especially on the side with corrosion already. Mudflaps sometimes do more harm than good.

2WD truck will be cheaper to maintain. Price is high, so look for anything wrong and point out the "weak" transmission and other things that need tending to...rear main maybe? Like the KDP in front cover. Truck looks like a keeper though. Good luck.

rstl99

Thanks folks!
"choke doesn't engage" - why didn't I see the idiocy of this! Maybe he meant throttle setting? My older diesels had a manual switch to increase throttle when engine cold, not sure how Cummins do that.

Indeed, used cars and parts come at a premium up here in Canada, for reasons I don't fully understand... (especially parts prices!)

Thanks for pointing out the oil leak below, I'll inquire about it, and make sure to have a full mechanical check before dropping my cheque on this truck (IF the seller is willing to negotiate down from his $10K figure - he just put the ad up today so is probably hoping someone else to come along with better offer - mind you, as pointed out, 2WD are not as valued up here, since most guys want 4x4 for winter driving).

I've inquired with him about KDP, not sure he knows what it is but pointed him to a good article on the net. Don't want a ticking timebomb in the engine (an ageing tranny is bad enough for me to contemplate...)

I'll look more at the front cab mounts as suggested. It may be what is causing that rust on one side.

This truck looks very stock, which is a plus on one hand (no performance upgrades with possible issues), and a negative on the other (original exhaust, muffler, etc., rad/hoses, etc.). I wouldn't want to feel like I have to spend several thousand $'s baselining this truck before heading out on lengthy road trips with the camper...

mariner

[QUOTE=rstl99;2856631]Thanks folks!
"choke doesn't engage" - why didn't I see the idiocy of this! Maybe he meant throttle setting? My older diesels had a manual switch to increase throttle when engine cold, not sure how Cummins do that.

I wonder if he was talking about "Cruise control" - it certainly fits in with his line of thinking as I understand it.

Yes, the KDP can be a pretty serious issue if not dealt with properly. From what I have read, it is a fairly straightforward repair - just a little time consuming.
None of my repairs are quick - they always morph into something bigger for a variety of reasons !

mariner

rstl99

No I don't think he was referring to Cruise Control (which I DID check when we took the test drive on the highway). Maybe he was referring to the glowplug system?? I'll have to ask him. I know when we got in the truck it fired right up, but I couldn't tell if he had had it running already that morning. May be one of those things where you have to go through this "convoluted process" to get it to start right... Something else to investigate.

Oddly enough he said he never had the KDP dealt with, and I got the impression he had never heard of it!! I suppose I figure every Cummins Dodge owner is plugged into the forums, but probably some people like him are not, and just go by what they dealer tells him. I would think the dealers would be advising people of that, but who knows.... Anyway, glad I informed him of it, even if I don't buy it maybe he'll mention it to other prospective buyers, maybe not...

Anyway, consensus seems to be (here and in other places I've been checking) that this truck is probably overpriced, so I'm reconsidering my position. One thing for sure: there's a LOT of trucks out there, so it pays to be patient. And I don't really need a truck until Spring anyway, this was an opportunity for me to see one up close, take it for a test drive to get a feel for a rig like this, and assess whether it represented a good deal.

Cheers!

gorms

At that price it may still be for sale in spring! Let it sit for a few weeks if any doubts. Patience does pay off as you said.

As far as choke, there are no provisions for a stock 12V for high idle, fueling/timing changes for cold starting. It actually states in the Dodge manual that you may have to press the throttle a bit to start and maintain steady idle. I'd guess the fuel lines are leaking (dried out, letting air IN overnight like my truck, but not letting fuel out) and causing a low/rough idle on initial startup. Mine has been doing this for 2 years now, I just give it some throttle on startup. Luckily my downwind neighbor is a jerk so I don't mind the "fog" rolling into his yard for 30 seconds or so.

rstl99

Thanks for clarifying how the "choke" works on a Cummins!
Yeah, one advantage of a diesel is payback time for obnoxious neighbours. I have one who parties into the late hours with friends in the backyard hot tub. I'd love to have a noisy diesel to penetrate their recuperating slumber at 7am the next morning! The diesel in my Land Cruiser is not quite loud enough

Yeah, patience is a virtue indeed. Don't always have lots of it when I come across a vehicle I'm lusting after, but usually a good night's sleep will bring the desire factor down to a manageable level. That and a sober dose of reality check and perspective from a great forum like this!!

Cheers.
--Robert

Junk Man

How much will it cost you to fix? KDP, front end, steering box, gauges etc. I'd wager $1,000 in parts at least. Most trucks have plenty of unnoticed deferred maintenance. Don't forget about the tranny.

chariotdriver

I don't think it's overpriced. Do a Craigslist search for Dodge diesel in the Seattle area and you'll see what I mean. One of the local dealers has some low mileage 12 valves and he is getting (not just asking) over 15 grand for them. cd