24 Valve Engine and Drivetrain Discuss the 24 Valve engine and drivetrain here. No non-drivetrain discussions please. NO HIGH PERFORMANCE DISCUSSION!

Year Model: No VP44

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Nov 22, 2015 | 07:54 PM
  #16  
totalloser's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 599
Likes: 0
Government regulations. The solder uses inferior tin solder that heat cycles and cracks. Lead based solder is far superior, but not legal.
Reply
Old Nov 23, 2015 | 10:47 AM
  #17  
KATOOM's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,179
Likes: 142
From: The "real" Northern CA
Originally Posted by totalloser
Government regulations. The solder uses inferior tin solder that heat cycles and cracks. Lead based solder is far superior, but not legal.
That topic is still up for debate, and let me say why.

Remember, the Cummins VP engines were widely used, not just in Dodge trucks. There were literally hundreds of thousands of them built. Especially during the late 90's and early 2000's, which is why you hear talk about the 53 block so much too since that was a common cast back then. These Cummins engines were used in commercial trucks, like delivery trucks, as well as many other applications, and the failures were certainly NOT limited to the Dodge engines either. So you can imagine the problem this created for Cummins as failing fuel injection pumps were not only angering the consumer world but also shutting down the commercial industry as well.....

Anyways, there was rumor years ago that even though the PSG failure problem was because of some new environmentally friendly lead free solder which was supposedly required during the PSG assembly. Now whether or not that was completely accurate or not (which we believe it was), at some point in time there were people who were after or received remanufactured VP's with what was called "Fedex" computers. There was talk that the number 028 or 029 pumps had/have the tell tale identification too. So what was or is a Fedex computer? Well it was thought that Bosch started building or built some special PSG's specifically for such commercial applications, like Fedex trucks, in order to keep these commercial engines on the road.

Now whether or not these are all wives tale stories, I cant say with complete uncertainty, but I was always under the impression they're true since the sources were generally good.....
Reply
Old Nov 24, 2015 | 09:46 AM
  #18  
rightwinger's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
That's interesting to hear, maybe somebody who has a hundred thousand miles on their VP will chime in and let us know if they have that number on their pump....
Reply
Old Nov 28, 2015 | 08:29 AM
  #19  
danalex's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 397
Likes: 5
From: Near San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted by KATOOM
All of the OEM factory VP's on the ISB 24 valve engines were the problem //.......// Why do you ask?
I've replaced mine twice.
But ultimately, I want a 4x4 version...mine is just 2wd. Starting the search.
Thanks for all the inputs.
Reply
Old Nov 28, 2015 | 10:49 AM
  #20  
KATOOM's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,179
Likes: 142
From: The "real" Northern CA
If you look around places like craigslist.org you can sometimes find them. But just know that they're in fairly high demand so asking prices can be surprisingly high. If you do find one then make sure it hasnt been abused and/or doesnt have all kinds of aftermarket hp goodies on it which would be a tell tail sign.
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2015 | 02:26 PM
  #21  
Junkdude's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 56
Likes: 4
I'm sure mounting the PSG to the pump was not the perfered location. Many times when designing things compromises have to be made. Some of the challenges with this pump design required that the PSG be mounted where it is. Also realize that this pump is fitted on compact cars so there isn't enough room for a full sized traditonal printed circuit board with through hole components. There is a lot going on in that PSG. In 1997 the types of constuction used for the PSG were for tiny throw away things like cell phones and toys so it's a wonder they last for 10 years or more. The engine manufactures wanted plug and play too so they wouldn't have elaborate calibration issues.

There is a lot of heat to be disapated by the fuel solenoid driver circuits. The solenoid has current peaks of 20 amps and 4-5 amps once seated. So a large heatsink is requ ired. instead Bosch used the fuel flow under the PSG for cooling to save space.

The timing tone wheel and angel posistion sensor are also very compact and produces a very weak signal. A larger more robust positon sensing system would have made a larger and c omplicated pump. The signals from the timer sensor and the fuel solenoid feedback signals are easily lost in the electrically noisy automotive enviroment so once again the PSG needed to be mounted close to the signal sources.

Trying to open and close an electo-mechanical valve a 150 times a second is not an easy task. so the driver has to turn on a certain amount of time before the firing event because of plunger inertia. This time of course changes with RPM, battery voltage, and fuel temperature. The test bench ball parks these delays and stores them in tabels in the PSG. The PSG also has the ability to adapt and fine tune its self from the solenoid current monitors. Thats just speculation based on some of my observations. I've also noticed that the solenoid will bounce several times if slammed shut so the driver hits it hard to start moving then backs off just before seating the valve.
Reply
Old Dec 1, 2015 | 11:06 AM
  #22  
KATOOM's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,179
Likes: 142
From: The "real" Northern CA
Originally Posted by Junkdude
I'm sure mounting the PSG to the pump was not the perfered location. Many times when designing things compromises have to be made. Some of the challenges with this pump design required that the PSG be mounted where it is. Also realize that this pump is fitted on compact cars so there isn't enough room for a full sized traditonal printed circuit board with through hole components. There is a lot going on in that PSG. In 1997 the types of constuction used for the PSG were for tiny throw away things like cell phones and toys so it's a wonder they last for 10 years or more. The engine manufactures wanted plug and play too so they wouldn't have elaborate calibration issues.

There is a lot of heat to be disapated by the fuel solenoid driver circuits. The solenoid has current peaks of 20 amps and 4-5 amps once seated. So a large heatsink is requ ired. instead Bosch used the fuel flow under the PSG for cooling to save space.

The timing tone wheel and angel posistion sensor are also very compact and produces a very weak signal. A larger more robust positon sensing system would have made a larger and c omplicated pump. The signals from the timer sensor and the fuel solenoid feedback signals are easily lost in the electrically noisy automotive enviroment so once again the PSG needed to be mounted close to the signal sources.

Trying to open and close an electo-mechanical valve a 150 times a second is not an easy task. so the driver has to turn on a certain amount of time before the firing event because of plunger inertia. This time of course changes with RPM, battery voltage, and fuel temperature. The test bench ball parks these delays and stores them in tabels in the PSG. The PSG also has the ability to adapt and fine tune its self from the solenoid current monitors. Thats just speculation based on some of my observations. I've also noticed that the solenoid will bounce several times if slammed shut so the driver hits it hard to start moving then backs off just before seating the valve.
I'm totally intrigued by you PSG observations. Generally being the the culprit for issues on these pumps, it would seem like the best method for lessening PSG issues would be to install a reliable circuit board and relocate it from the pump altogether.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
RedRam410
3rd Gen High Performance and Accessories (5.9L Only)
3
Feb 2, 2007 10:27 AM
farmboy238
2nd Gen. Dodge Ram - No Drivetrain
7
Feb 10, 2005 09:01 AM
dieselminded
General Diesel Discussion
39
Aug 15, 2004 09:25 PM
Patrick Campbell
3rd Generation Ram - Non Drivetrain - All Years
2
Oct 19, 2003 09:22 AM
samtheham
12 Valve Engine and Drivetrain
6
Jan 9, 2003 12:16 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:48 AM.