Upgrade to medium duty trans.. anyone?
01-16-2008, 09:54 AM
#16
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Well, I guess I better start looking at that trans then.. but I guess I dont understand how it could work for me rated under what I pull?
I am scared to death to make a mistake at this point. I mean if the trans doesnt hold up I might as well take $6k and toss it out my window and watch it blow away.
I was just looking at this product:
http://www.gearvendors.com/commercial.html
and it seems interesting.. basically it would allow me to stay on the planetary gears of my NV4500.. 1-4 seem to be fine.. its the **** overdrive that is the problem from what I can tell. I dunno.. doggone it.
Yeah I am a car haul just like everyone else.. cept I do not drive and I want to hire older guys that do not have a CDL.. it has been working out fantastic..
I'll look into the 6 speed then.. thanks.
I am scared to death to make a mistake at this point. I mean if the trans doesnt hold up I might as well take $6k and toss it out my window and watch it blow away.
I was just looking at this product:
http://www.gearvendors.com/commercial.html
and it seems interesting.. basically it would allow me to stay on the planetary gears of my NV4500.. 1-4 seem to be fine.. its the **** overdrive that is the problem from what I can tell. I dunno.. doggone it.
Yeah I am a car haul just like everyone else.. cept I do not drive and I want to hire older guys that do not have a CDL.. it has been working out fantastic..
I'll look into the 6 speed then.. thanks.
Unfortunately, the 5th gear isn't the only thing that fails when hauling very heavy with the 4500. I have watched a good friend go through MANY NV4500 issues over the years in two Dodge CTD tow trucks. The quality of the rebuilt 4500's is questionable and nearly impossible to verify.....and since Dodge no longer sells new 4500's direct (they might tell you they are new but they are also rebuilt units from the dealer), your options are limited.
Hindsight is always 20/20 and if he just swapped in NV5600's the first time he would have saved thousands and lots of headaches and down time.
NV5600's can be expensive depending on the source - I can't deny that! I don't want to steer you away from a med. duty tranny.....if you have a good source and can find one for a reasonable price and it is within your means to minimize the swap costs, this could be a very good option for you.....but for most guys, the 5600 swap is much more simple and straight forward and uses factory parts so, it is the easier route to go. From my first hand experience, I don't see a problem with a 5600 in your application other than making sure you select a good quality clutch.
01-16-2008, 09:55 AM
#17
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Of course, my driver checked the rear end temp yesterday and it hit 270f... I dont know if that is high or not.. but it concerns me.. so will run a cooler on it.. just need a pump, some hose and a small oil cooler.. no problemo.
anyway.. thanks for keeping me on track.. I am not saying the suggestion to go to the 5600 was a bad one.. its just not for me.. if I had pros driving that would be one thing.. but I have driven it and I know what kind of mistakes can be made that can put a ton of strain on the trans.. I need something bulletproof.. Id rather be breaking U joints than trannies!
01-16-2008, 10:38 AM
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01-16-2008, 11:12 AM
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I can certainly sympathize with your situation and can understand that you are going to be a little gun shy about pulling the trigger on a different tranny. FWIW, there is a redesigned and correct 5th gear that eliminates this failure prone weak spot in the NV4500 and will certainly cost many times less than a tranny swap. These guys seem to be the only ones that have really got the 5th gear perfected.
Unfortunately, the 5th gear isn't the only thing that fails when hauling very heavy with the 4500. I have watched a good friend go through MANY NV4500 issues over the years in two Dodge CTD tow trucks. The quality of the rebuilt 4500's is questionable and nearly impossible to verify.....and since Dodge no longer sells new 4500's direct (they might tell you they are new but they are also rebuilt units from the dealer), your options are limited.
Hindsight is always 20/20 and if he just swapped in NV5600's the first time he would have saved thousands and lots of headaches and down time.
NV5600's can be expensive depending on the source - I can't deny that! I don't want to steer you away from a med. duty tranny.....if you have a good source and can find one for a reasonable price and it is within your means to minimize the swap costs, this could be a very good option for you.....but for most guys, the 5600 swap is much more simple and straight forward and uses factory parts so, it is the easier route to go. From my first hand experience, I don't see a problem with a 5600 in your application other than making sure you select a good quality clutch.
Unfortunately, the 5th gear isn't the only thing that fails when hauling very heavy with the 4500. I have watched a good friend go through MANY NV4500 issues over the years in two Dodge CTD tow trucks. The quality of the rebuilt 4500's is questionable and nearly impossible to verify.....and since Dodge no longer sells new 4500's direct (they might tell you they are new but they are also rebuilt units from the dealer), your options are limited.
Hindsight is always 20/20 and if he just swapped in NV5600's the first time he would have saved thousands and lots of headaches and down time.
NV5600's can be expensive depending on the source - I can't deny that! I don't want to steer you away from a med. duty tranny.....if you have a good source and can find one for a reasonable price and it is within your means to minimize the swap costs, this could be a very good option for you.....but for most guys, the 5600 swap is much more simple and straight forward and uses factory parts so, it is the easier route to go. From my first hand experience, I don't see a problem with a 5600 in your application other than making sure you select a good quality clutch.
Anyway.. yeah, I am going to do my best to install a larger trans from a medium size truck.. I may have to do a 1" body lift to do it.. which will be a pain but when its done the truck is also going to look **** cool.
I'm gonna look real hard in the next week for the "set up"... Im really not worried about the mounts.. that is the easiest part as far as I am concerned.. I love to weld.
01-16-2008, 11:15 AM
#21
I've seen a 1'st Gen with a Road Ranger in it, looked pretty cool.
As far as the swap goes, all the power to you.
ost wise though I don't think it is economical or logical for that matter, but your choice. The next thing that springs to my mind is, basically you are trying to beef a pickup in order to evade the law, that doesn't sound like a good business plan to me. Purposely going out of your way to modify a pickup truck to haul illegal loads seems silly to me. Whether the load is behind an OTR truck or behind a pickup doesn't eliminate the need for a CDL. But that's your choice I guess.
As for the swap, I think it sounds cool, it will be great for hauling but not a great deal of fun for everyday driving I would imagine.
As far as the swap goes, all the power to you.
ost wise though I don't think it is economical or logical for that matter, but your choice. The next thing that springs to my mind is, basically you are trying to beef a pickup in order to evade the law, that doesn't sound like a good business plan to me. Purposely going out of your way to modify a pickup truck to haul illegal loads seems silly to me. Whether the load is behind an OTR truck or behind a pickup doesn't eliminate the need for a CDL. But that's your choice I guess.
As for the swap, I think it sounds cool, it will be great for hauling but not a great deal of fun for everyday driving I would imagine.
01-17-2008, 07:07 AM
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Don't know if you would consider an Allison trans, but I just found an Allison AT545 on ebay with a current bid of $250. It came out of a bus with a 5.9 Cummins in it, it would likely be a perfect fit... maybe just a little fabricating.
I checked the specs on the AT545 and it is rated at 30,000lbs. Throw in a shift kit for line pressure, good converter and you are all set.
Here are the links...
EBAY: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Allis...spagenameZWDVW
Specs: http://www.industrialautomatic.com/html/at545.htm
Hope this helps!
Take care,
Dan
I checked the specs on the AT545 and it is rated at 30,000lbs. Throw in a shift kit for line pressure, good converter and you are all set.
Here are the links...
EBAY: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Allis...spagenameZWDVW
Specs: http://www.industrialautomatic.com/html/at545.htm
Hope this helps!
Take care,
Dan
01-17-2008, 08:06 AM
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I've seen a 1'st Gen with a Road Ranger in it, looked pretty cool.
As far as the swap goes, all the power to you.
ost wise though I don't think it is economical or logical for that matter, but your choice. The next thing that springs to my mind is, basically you are trying to beef a pickup in order to evade the law, that doesn't sound like a good business plan to me. Purposely going out of your way to modify a pickup truck to haul illegal loads seems silly to me. Whether the load is behind an OTR truck or behind a pickup doesn't eliminate the need for a CDL. But that's your choice I guess.
As for the swap, I think it sounds cool, it will be great for hauling but not a great deal of fun for everyday driving I would imagine.
As far as the swap goes, all the power to you.
ost wise though I don't think it is economical or logical for that matter, but your choice. The next thing that springs to my mind is, basically you are trying to beef a pickup in order to evade the law, that doesn't sound like a good business plan to me. Purposely going out of your way to modify a pickup truck to haul illegal loads seems silly to me. Whether the load is behind an OTR truck or behind a pickup doesn't eliminate the need for a CDL. But that's your choice I guess.
As for the swap, I think it sounds cool, it will be great for hauling but not a great deal of fun for everyday driving I would imagine.
There is nothing illegal about what I am doing. Please, if you do not know what you are talking about then just keep quiet. My truck commonly goes thru weigh stations and is scrutinized often. Your comment is unwarranted and unwelcome here.
I know ever single word of the Federal Carrier Motor Vehical manual.. so you dont want to even try calling me out on this.. I have corrected state patrol officers who have thought like you do.. don't try it, you will lose. This is one area I know inside and out.. Hell I had 2 state patrol cops that wanted to put me out of service for having no cdl.. they felt really stupid when we pulled out the rule book. I pulled away with a big smile on my face.
01-17-2008, 08:09 AM
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Don't know if you would consider an Allison trans, but I just found an Allison AT545 on ebay with a current bid of $250. It came out of a bus with a 5.9 Cummins in it, it would likely be a perfect fit... maybe just a little fabricating.
I checked the specs on the AT545 and it is rated at 30,000lbs. Throw in a shift kit for line pressure, good converter and you are all set.
Here are the links...
EBAY: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Allis...spagenameZWDVW
Specs: http://www.industrialautomatic.com/html/at545.htm
Hope this helps!
Take care,
Dan
I checked the specs on the AT545 and it is rated at 30,000lbs. Throw in a shift kit for line pressure, good converter and you are all set.
Here are the links...
EBAY: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Allis...spagenameZWDVW
Specs: http://www.industrialautomatic.com/html/at545.htm
Hope this helps!
Take care,
Dan
01-17-2008, 08:14 AM
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01-17-2008, 08:16 AM
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The at545 is a 4 gear trans, with 4th being 1:1
The specs don't specify if it has a lockup converter, which would give you the highway OD. I am checking into that, because I was thinking of a trans swap myself.
I'm not sure if the Dodge ECM (engine) needs input from the TCM (trans), but I believe the AT545 is mechanical, so you wouldn't need a TCM.
I'll be checking in to it and report back here with what I have found.
Take care,
Dan
The specs don't specify if it has a lockup converter, which would give you the highway OD. I am checking into that, because I was thinking of a trans swap myself.
I'm not sure if the Dodge ECM (engine) needs input from the TCM (trans), but I believe the AT545 is mechanical, so you wouldn't need a TCM.
I'll be checking in to it and report back here with what I have found.
Take care,
Dan
01-17-2008, 08:23 AM
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The at545 is a 4 gear trans, with 4th being 1:1
The specs don't specify if it has a lockup converter, which would give you the highway OD. I am checking into that, because I was thinking of a trans swap myself.
I'm not sure if the Dodge ECM (engine) needs input from the TCM (trans), but I believe the AT545 is mechanical, so you wouldn't need a TCM.
I'll be checking in to it and report back here with what I have found.
Take care,
Dan
The specs don't specify if it has a lockup converter, which would give you the highway OD. I am checking into that, because I was thinking of a trans swap myself.
I'm not sure if the Dodge ECM (engine) needs input from the TCM (trans), but I believe the AT545 is mechanical, so you wouldn't need a TCM.
I'll be checking in to it and report back here with what I have found.
Take care,
Dan
Here is my first concern.. Max Input Power is 235 HP.. I am probably 300 with my modifications.. should this be a concern?
01-17-2008, 08:26 AM
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I believe "1stgen545" was at that much power with his. I don't think he'll mind at all answering your questions since he has actually done the swap.
01-17-2008, 08:26 AM
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BTW...
I was doing some thinking.. It seems to me the NV4500 weak point is 5th gear.. it runs on its own shaft.. the rest of the gears are on the main shaft.. we are currently running in 4th.. at 60 mph he tells me he is turning 2300 RPM.. I wonder if I should just run this trans in 4th.. maybe 5th is just too low an rpm for heavy loads? The "nut issue" occurs due to low rpm pounding on the 5th gear.. I am pretty sure this is what has happened again...
I am waiting to hear what MPG we get.. we used to get 9-10 with a full load..
any thoughts on this? is 2300 too much for this engine?
I was doing some thinking.. It seems to me the NV4500 weak point is 5th gear.. it runs on its own shaft.. the rest of the gears are on the main shaft.. we are currently running in 4th.. at 60 mph he tells me he is turning 2300 RPM.. I wonder if I should just run this trans in 4th.. maybe 5th is just too low an rpm for heavy loads? The "nut issue" occurs due to low rpm pounding on the 5th gear.. I am pretty sure this is what has happened again...
I am waiting to hear what MPG we get.. we used to get 9-10 with a full load..
any thoughts on this? is 2300 too much for this engine?