In the interest of accuracy, there is no warranty wording similar to what you posted. The simple English wording, used for many years, states that the Cummins Diesel Engine Limited Warranty begins at the end of the Basic Warranty—that is, the Basic Warranty and the Cummins Diesel Engine Limited Warranty run consecutively rather than concurrently like D/C claims. This may work out to be no different than the 8 yr/136,000 mi that you mention, but not necessarily.

-Thomas

 

Well you did say "friend", certainly not "good friend". I'm at a DODGE DEALER and could have KILLED that VP price out the door. Assuming by the price the lift pump was included on the job. I would state a $$$ amount, but would once again get my hand slapped for "advertising".

 

It's the "hero or zero" factor..... Lift pump would have made the fix you would have not posted a thing. The "problem" was not repaired and now you are a hater. Could the lift pump fixed the problem?? from my experience probably not, but on the same token if the truck came in with a poor performing lift pump I think that would have been a very good place to start. In tank pump is dang expensive and I hardly sell any of them (maybe one ever). Most still opt for the failure prone original style. Easier to pay a couple hundred once in a great while than throw down close to $700 for the in tank unit on one hit (sounds silly, but it's true...) But to help give you that warm fuzzy feeling, I have YET to see any issues with ANY in tank lift pump on a cummins equipped truck....and they do flow quite a bit more than the engine mounted unit.

 

Keep the pressure on them!!

 

This gives me a good occasion to point out a flaw in how maintenance is done.

How come when a part is replaced unnecessarily, the customer has to eat the cost? The customer doesn't bring a truck in to replace any particular part-- all he knows is that something is wrong, and he wants the truck to be "right" again.

A typical customer won't know if it's a VP, a LP, an APPS or whatever that's causing the problem. All he knows is the truck dies, or gets dead pedal, or is hard to start or whatever.

The customer wants a fix. Not a possible fix. Not a "might be this."


TROUBLESHOOT THE DARN THING ALREADY!

A quality mechanical should be able to troubleshoot most problems relatively quickly. A good service manager will replace the right part the first time, and keep the customer informed at every step of the process.

Why can't the shop have a known "good" LP that they swap in on a temporary basis to validate the repair?


I had to deal with this insanity when my VP died at 40k miles. I had the 0216 code, I had other signs of a dead pump. I took it in and explained to them the symptoms, and that I had the injection pump timing code the often indicates (but not always) a dead VP pump. They "troubleshot" the problem and found out that it was actually a leaking wastegate hose.

I paid the $90 troubleshooting fee reluctantly, and ONLY after I agreed with with the service writer that in the off chance the wastegate hose wasn't causing my problems, they would apply that fee to my warranty deductible when I brought the truck back in.

I retrieved my truck from the dealer after they "fixed" it, having told the manager before I left that I expected their repair did nothing, and that if it didn't I would bring it back tomorrow.

A test drive of 4 miles was ample time for the dead VP signs to surface, so I headed for home and went back to the dealer the following morning.

Turns out it was, in fact, a dead VP44! I mean, talk about something out of left field! I can see a bad wastegate, because that's happening all the time, but a VP44?

They replaced my VP the next day under warranty. Total cost to me was $90.

Now I know that service writers have to deal with a ton of ignorant knuckleheads a day. But this writer at least now knew I wasn't one of them.

They musta felt pretty sheepish, because when I was having dead pedal episodes that an new APPS didn't fix, they took the part back even though I had installed it. Most of you know that electronic parts are non-returnable if installed. APPSs aren't cheap. This was when we found the bad ECM sending erratic voltage to the APPS.


The moral to all this rambling is that a decent tech would have taken the truck for a drive of more than 5 miles on the nearby interstate to validate the repair of my truck-- rather than make me bring it back the next day when the wastegate hose didn't fix my VP.

Small wonder people put such little trust in dealers...

JH

 

....quoted from very first entry by poster.


....kinda blows holes in your "they should have diaged it correctly" theory HOHN.

By what you stated, and perhaps what they probably should have done was to simply state, "unable to duplicate problem, no repair action taken".

...honestly nobody here knows what they saw. So what's to say they drove it and it ran fine, started checking things over, and found a poor performing lift pump. Could the lift pump cause this issue they cannot duplicate? maybe, maybe not. Guy said the lift pump was "8 months old".......does that make it not bad?? I think there are many here who would agree that it's possible. Lots of variables, but always makes interesting discussion...


...and on at least two occasions I have installed injection pumps without duplicating the issue, and NO stored or active codes. Simply went by what the customer explained to me. Laid the options and costs on the table and they called me on it! Was I sweating bullets?? dang right I was. I DO NOT want to lift that kind of cash out of anyones pocket on a whim..... Luckily in both cases it was problem solved and I rode off into the sunset to load my cannon for another "hip shot" on another day. Hero to zero....techs ride that line often.

 

Hey, J body-- I feel for ya. My post was in reference to those cases where the choice is clear, but the dealer won't be forthright. In my case, I was insulted that they expected me to think replacing a wastegate hose would fix my pump symptops.

What *can* a tech do when he can't duplicate the problem? Not much!

Fortunately, talented techs are more often heros than zeros-- but people only remember the latter

 

...a true "eyeroller" for sure.

 

thats odd you havent seen this. cuz twice over ive seen the in-tank units go **** up with only a few thousand miles. its also been shown that they dont flow near the pressure. both were in completley stock trucks that were very well taken care of.

 

Working on these things seems to give me a pretty idea on what holds up and what doesn't. I was VERY leary of the in tank set up when they came out. Back in 94-95 on the gas rams we were replacing in tank pumps like crazy... I definately had that in mind when this "new" idea came along. I do however agree that having the pump immersed in fuel and away from the heat cycles and vibration of the engine had to be an improvement. I also noted on the first retro kit I did (VP truck) that the pressures were seemingly low for what they used to require in the diagnostic manuals... of course this was also the time they announced to "no longer use PSI as a means to determine lift pump condition. Perform a flow test". That said I did do a flow test and checked it against my stock style lift pump on my 01. The intank unit moved more fuel.

 

Man I replace the VP44 all the time for 1371.00 parts and labor and get it out the same day it only takes about 1.5 hrs to do the job.

 

you awnsered the arguement with those two statements.....yourself included...if you paid a large amount of money to have something fixed...ANYTHING, your TV your RADIO, your LAWN MOWER and it wasnt fixed YOU WOULD BE A HATER to....that is why we are ASKED to pay LARGE amounts of money to have the PROBLEM FIXED.

next...if you work for dodge, which i believe you said you do...and in YOUR opinion a LP ...how did you say it...in your experience...probally wouldnt have fixed the problem....i assume you said that based on the customers explaination of the problem....why is it that YOU seem to know that a LP either in tank or otherwise wouldnt have solved the problem and others dont...isnt there some sort of quality control training program...some sort of standardized method of diagnosis...some checks and balances mechanics go through to ensure that the process doesnt change and that when a customer comes in and says hey look at my fuel system for this and that...you diagnosis each part of it to find the flaw....and not slap in a new LP and wipe your hands off and say...well that should do her????

if you are told to check flow now not psi....why not flow test the LP...find it to be good, and move upstream....might save the customer 1000 bucks.



just my own thoughts.....

 

I'm sure if J-body put a new LP on a truck, It was bad (failed the test). Did that fix the dead pedle? maybe, maybe not, the IP could be dieing also. If he can't get it to throw the code, and it runs fine (for the 3-5 miles he test drives it). do you want to spend another $1500 to be sure he got it all? Or do you want him to be sure that the $$44 is really bad before he spends your money? In most cases dead pedle and a 0216, you will need both pumps, but when it's your $$$ you will want to try them one at a time.

 

...simply playing the odds based on the years of technical experiences over the years (azz kickins!). Believe me....my diagnostic abilities on the VP system are much more finally tuned than they were in 98-99. If you go to the bar every saturday night and get in a fight, sooner or later you need to decide to A: quit going to the bar...or B: find a way to kick some butt. Of course even after you "kick butt" on a regular basis, sooner or later something small comes along and brings you down.

....it's not all roses. I could tell a few stories from my side of the fence on guys that HATE me.

 

I will have to disagre on the "they do flow quite a bit more than the engine mounted unit" have had 3 cusomers that had the intank pump done, all the stated that the truck was still down on power after the new intank pump, plus 2 of them had low fuel pressure lights that would come on while in a up hill pull. so i dropped the tank, to take a look at this new pump. if you were to take one of these units apart you will find a check valve on the outlet of the pump, take the top of the check valve apart, all the fuel has to flow though a orfice that is 117- thousands in dia., then into a 3/8 fuel line. what a hell of a restriction. so i cut the in-tank pump out of the fuel module, made a true 3/8 pick up hose, reinstalled in the tank, relocated old style lift pump onto frame rail. power was back, and fuel pressure light never comes on. same on all 3 trucks... You be the judge.

scot