Just like going to church, I was told that you always needed to make sure the engine has the later injector tubes when pulling injectors. Ok I have always done that. I just sat there for a few minutes with the drop light trying to see the difference.

How about if someone smarter than me can tell me the difference and why they needed to be changed out. I really would like to know the difference as they only seem to carry the fuel to the injector.

 

I was told the old stilewere not reuseable and I thought maybe the tip of the tube "crushed formed" to fit the pocket of the injector???

 

http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1998/14-01-98a.htm This explains it.

 

So the tsb says "for information only". So i guess you have to pay as you go on the connector tubes. What are a set worth? I have changed my injectors and left the old tubes in. Its been a year and have had no problems. Just leave them??

 

well if it bothering you do a sample test of your oil and see if it deluted........??......I think if it was you could smell it

 

Oil has been good it doesn't smell of diesel and it goes down a little and not up so should be ok. Would be nice to know how many more surpises these trucks can bring. The bang for the buck is getting quieter!! I bought it for pleasure not pain!

 

I am not sure what the deal is, but starting to get the idea. I changed the head gasket. Examined it carefully, no compresion problems, all good except for the leakage of antifreeze at the corner of the head.

The only thing I changed was the injector tubes. Put the late tubes in it, new gasket, new exhaust manifold gaskets. Head and block stoned to clean. International #2 used as an anti seize for the torquing. Did not even have to set the valves. But did check them.

So, I expected the engine to run the same. It is smoother, builds a little more boost, egt's slower to build and a little lower. I put several hundred miles on it, but can't tell yet about power differences and economy. That has been improving the last few weeks anyway as it approaches 50,000 on the engine. Engine is a little quieter on the clatter end at cruise, the exhaust tone is real smooth, nice hum in the background.

Two or three of the old tubes were nasty on removal. Injectors were not numbered and no attempt was made to put them in the same holes, but all other valve gear was replaced in the same positions. Injector lines came up with no leaks from the onset.

I did not change or disturb the intake gaskets and only broke one boot, so that is not a criteria.

Found a few things different on this ISB275 which was a Cummins test engine. The head bolts were surface ground on the head and end and were numbered in paint for the location, each one numbered. They measured within .005 in length, miked each of them. There is also something different with the tappets. I had a little more difficulty getting some of them in the hole. On the Dodge engine they just drop in. The valve bridges were a different design, might just be that it is the older engine.

It took forever to bleed the system. Was starting to worry when it took off. I strongly believe that Cummins tweaked the pump or the parameters. Oh yeah, smokes less now, maybe just the cold weather, in the 30's last night.

I started the engine at about 4:00 yesterday, drove it .3 miles, checked the fluids and for leaks. A neighbor helped me put the hood on at 6:30 yesterday, at 9:30 I was loading in Atlanta. Have two more Atlanta's to run tonight.

 

I tend to agree with your suspicions Haulin. I found a guy that retired from Cummins Tech center that works on the ISB's now. I get a strong feeling that Dodge has set a lot of "limits" that Cummins must abide by. Now that this fellow is retired, he is working wonders on these engines. I took my 99 to him for a checkup (I bought it off ebay, needed it to be trouble free for my seasonal intense work, and thought a trained opinion would help). I thought the truck ran great on the way to him. It was a totally different, much greater truck on the way home. He pulled the edge box out, tweaked a few things, installed a set of 275's and put in a new program. I dont know what Dodge would think about this program, but I like it. When I sold the used edge, I was out a total of $75. I have saved way more than that in time and fuel savings this season.
I still believe the Cummins is the best thing going, just gets better without Dodge involvement.

 

The difference between the Dodge 235 engine with RV275 injectors and the whole ISB 275 engine is a big difference. I suspect he put the ISB275 program in the VP44. I was concerned that if the VP44 was to go I would be back to a stock program, now I find that I can put the chip in the new pump and have the same settings.

My understanding from Cummins people that I have run into, Dodge gets the engines, no warranty, no electronics. They set them up. The sensors are the same, mine are all stock for the 275 except the ECM is Dodge.

 

So one should try and find a VP44 RV275 chip and replace the stock one??? Or wait till the pump goes south and replace it with a RV275? Whats a chip for the VP44 worth? All sounds interesting. Haulin did you say the new tubes made a difference??

 

bob I am not attempting to sound knowledgeable on the VP44 deal. But from what I understand the VP44 is the same the program is different. Cummins has a Borsh tech come and set them up. He does it with a laptop type of deal. Also with no knowledge from experience except the engine I have, the full RV275 engine does not comply with the EPA regs that the Dodge does, so fuels heavier and a completely different curve. It probably would not be what you want though, the fuel starts shutting down at 2500 and is pretty dead by 2700 although mine will wind on up to 2900 or so.

For pulling freight with the six speed, it is great. Red light to red light it is slower. My truck pulls better loaded with 29,000 or so gross than it did with the empty trailer with the stock Dodge and the same accessories as in the signature. That would be the stock engine with RV275 injectors, ez, exhaust, Scotty, etc.

The one hill here which is a couple of miles long, the old engine would come down to 65 to 67 mph empty. I can now run in excess of 70 loaded.

I have no idea what a chip would cost if you could buy it. I doubt it. You would have to get one from a junk 275 VP44 or have yours reprogrammed. I have no idea of how you would get that done. Cummins does not do it.

The tubes.... I would guess that if the old tubes are sealing correctly, no not an improvement. That said, my Cummins set up engine had obviously some injector leaks. Now it does not. Always wondered what the return was for on the back of the head, now I know. The tubes and the injectors have an O ring on them. They stop the excess fuel from going out of the engine or into the oil, and drain into the rear return port. I had two or three that were nasty when I took it apart. So they were leaking at the injector. If the outer nut leaks, it would leak to the outside of the head. I bet a lot of injectors are changed because the joint leaks at the tube. Mine had a rough idle and Cummins said that it was the compressor that caused it. Now it is smooth.

 

HID - Do you know if the Dodge engine has the return port on the rear of the head?

 

Yes there is a banjo on the back of the head, the line tees to the return from the VP44.

 

Haul'n you have a complete 275 engine with a dodge ecm on it, right? So when my VP44 takes the bigg dirt nap I can get a 275 pump and it should run as good or better than the 235 pump, with the exception that it will defuel earlier, which is not a problem because I dont run it over 2500 rpms ever. Also in the distant future I want 275 infectors, than the only major difference would be not having a 275 cam in it. Am I barking up the right tree here or not?

Jed

 

Yep, correct. There are some differences, in longevity, teflon coated piston skirts, etc. But the power would be the same. The cam does help some though.