wyododge

I put on a FASS. Have not had any issues. Runs at about 17ish at idle, if I really stand on it it drops to about 12ish. but jumps right back up to 15-16 when I let off. I think it was right around 350 to 400.

I have read good things about the DDRP on this forum. Search around for the different models. Mostly you will get the same old ford/chevy/dodge argument, but there is good info. Katoom is the man though, LOTS of good posts. Dr. Evil (the real one) and Infidel are also very knowledgable members...

Russ Roth

I had a Walbro and it started acting up. I put Raptor on a couple years ago and solved that issue. I still have the Walbro mounted as a backup by the rear of the tank. I think they were not what they were cracked up to be, but that's just my experience and HO.

KATOOM

Thanks wyododge for the compliment. The DDRP did have its fair share of issues when it was first introduced but is supposed to be a decent/good pump today. Pureflow also just released its Raptor direct replacement version to compete with the DDRP. I hear good things about it but then again it hasn't been very long to give it any long term ratings.

banzaitoyota

I just installed a Raptor 150 with a Glacier big line kit, still working on the fuel gauge install; will report pressures later this weekend

sluggo42

Yes, I think the Raptor is the 5th factory replacement out now

BD, Raptor, Fass, Airtex, and the "new" Carter from Cummins. Each one is somewhere in the $250-300 range. The Airtex and the new Cummins Carter are more in the $175 range. I like the pressure adjustment on the Raptor, as well as it's warrantee. I think the Carters and Airtex have a 1 year.

The "new" redesigned and improved Carter from Cummins I found interesting, as it stated that it was redesigned to allow fuel to freeflow past it, drawn by the VP44, in case of failure... Doesn't the concept of designing features for it's own failure concern you???

Anyways, yesterday I dumped 16 oz. of liquid tank cleaner in with my fill-up. My pressure has remained stable for a few days now with about 300 miles since I blew the lines back into the tank....
So for now, I'm out of emergency state, and more into the monitoring. But I have read enough searches now to believe that I will eventually be installing something fancy and new...

I think if I had to pick one this very second, I would go with the Raptor FRRP. I think that a frame mount with my big line kit, and the ability to dial the pressure in to whatever I want (18 psi-ish at idle) is the most sensible.
I just haven't been ablt to find any negative posts about the Raptor. At $299, it seems to be the smartest option for a mildly modified truck like mine.

This topic has been raging for years, and the pump choice options has really gone from A to Z. I think we now have some good middle ground options now that will give us more reliability without totally breaking the bank. And the big power boys can still have their FASS / Airdog systems for high flow to feed their beasts...

KATOOM

The "redesigned" Carter OEM replacement pump has been redesigned for years. They used to shut off all fuel flow if they failed but apparently Carter thought that allowing fuel to pass through a non working pump was a good idea. Well yes it is but no its not. Trouble with that concept is that the VP is capable of sucking enough fuel to keep the engine running.....as long as the fuel system has zero leaks and the prime is retained. But as soon as you change the fuel filter, crack a fuel line, acquire a leak, or run out of fuel.....the engine wont start. Thats not because the VP failed either but because the VP cant pull air which stops it from supplying the engine. So consequently anyone with a failed lift pump, who doesn't have a fuel pressure gauge, wont know they're without a fuel pump until they drive for however many countless miles with the VP having to suck its own fuel which if the VP's fuel temperature sensor doesn't kick in from hot fuel and lower HP then the internal plastic diaphragm will eventually crack from vibrating back and forth because of head pressure being lower than the internal fuel pulsing pressure. Not sure why some guys cant accept that this is reality and not theory.

As for your potential fuel tank issues and things getting better with cleaner. Maybe you need to drop the tank and pull out the fuel module since the module has a very fine screen that pre-filters the fuel supply pickup and return line outlet and that screen can easily get clogged up with sludgy debris if you picked up some bad fuel. Somewhere there's a post about someone thinking their Raptor was failing only to eventually find out that the inlet screen on the Raptor was completely clogged with junk. And the only way that can happen is if the fuel module screen is damaged.

You're right too that this topic has been around for years. Thats because, again, this issue is real and years ago got to the point where guys were trying to make their own home grown setups which proved only minimally better than the stock OEM lift pump.....which eventually led to someone realizing that there was a market for good diesel fuel pumps. Problem with that was that those aftermarket fuel pumps were expensive and still in experimental stage during the rage but competition and the economy has made them very reliable and more affordable.

dkenny

uh...

have you cleaned you pickup screen? this is not a minor question but quite serious.
background.
I installed an AD100..started out working great, but around 1/4 tank it would hiccup.
every seen -10in vacuum on your fuel system..yep scared the mess out of me. then I had fuel filter problems..plugged even though I changed it less than 2 weeks ago..
long story short..I dropped the tank..the pickup screen took 1 can of brake cleaner before I found the screen..

so is it the pump or the pickup? or both.
would I go back to stock..NEVER..
most time I run 15-20PSI..15 is WOT..and stays for..well until I let up..Black Mountian was a 15 up at WOT..

-dkenny

Homestead

Nothing wrong with the Carter lift pump. I won't use anything else.

Behind the front tire on the outside of the frame for over 200,000 miles, so why should I replace it with some thing else. With a Vulcan kit, I'm 15 psi at idle and 12 WOT.

Sure there have been a couple of pumps under there, Carter's don't last forever, but this last one is getting close to knocking on a 100K.

As I have said before, try and find a replacement FASS or Airdog on a long weekend in the middle of nowhere. Most any parts store or tractor dealer will have a Carter on the shelf. It might not be the exact replacement unit for your truck, but you can take them apart and make a working one out of two in an emergency.

I have lost count of guys I know that have had a hot dog pump puke on the side of the road and come home on a flatbed because of it. Many of them have gone back to a simple lift pump.

For the price of a FASS, you can have a spare Carter under the seat just in case, I do and if I had to I can change it out in 15 minutes easy. Monitor your pressure and put your money elsewhere. Like johnh said, as long as you have pressure, your VP will be happy.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but whatever

Jeff

KATOOM

No flame Jeff. Its all good and as I've tried to stress before too.....the great things about these forums is anyone can do whatever they want. I've been on these forums since I purchased my truck in '02 and my only reason for posting anything ever is simply to help.....not cause anyone to spend any unnecessary money.

As for your way of running the OEM lift pump, that is or was not all that uncommon. Years ago I was one of the few guys against spending money on high dollar aftermarket fuel pumps by saying that the OEM lift pump was capable but just needed bigger fuel lines. The problem with that is, not only did I loose more than one OEM lift pump, I also lost a VP. So yes, I could have spent a couple hundred on another OEM lift pump, fabricated or purchased a mounting bracket, relocated it to a more appropriate location on the frame, purchased higher flowing JIC fittings, and enough larger fuel line. But when I was done locating all the parts and calculating the entire cost I would have spent just about the same as the Raptor, and.....I would have had a OEM lift pump with a terrible warranty, if any, and the reliability of the OEM lift pump just isnt worth jeopardizing another $1500 VP. Does Carter "really" care if your fuel pump quits? I wont be critical and say no but I'm sure its nothing compared to how much FASS or Pureflow or Glacier Diesel cares. Carter is a HUGE company and they've probably thrown together hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of those OEM style lift pumps. How many pumps do you think FASS or Pureflow or Glacier Diesel has made? That doesn't mean I'm saying that those other pumps dont fail either but the facts clearly speak for themselves and the Carter OEM fuel pump has a pretty bad track record.

Again, this is all to each is own and I dont criticize you for running the OEM lift pump either if it works for you. I've even seen guys fabricate their fuel system setup so if their aftermarket fuel pump fails then they can toss in an OEM lift pump so they can get home. Or you can buy the Fuel Boss which incorporates the OEM fuel pump in their setup just incase of failure.

Russ Roth

And to add to this, I and others used a carter pump on our gas pots back in the 60's and it was really junk. Would last no time at all. Imagine my chagrin when I got my rig and started reading about how poor the Carter LP's were, only to look at it and see it appears to be the SAME pump! Not only did it appear so, I got a hold of one that died and took it apart and it is exactly the same lousy junk pump we used in the 60's. I would have at least thought it would last better running diesel through it but it doesn't appear to be the case.

codyguy

Pretty much all of the aftermarket lift pumps from my experience have much higher quality, and reliability than compared to the factory lift pump. With that stated, the loss in fuel pressure a lot of the times is also related to the copper piping that feeds the VP from the filter canister. Even with a stock lift pump, and a glacier diesel big line kit, you will see a vast improvement. This IMO is probably the 2nd most important thing that you need to take care of while doing the lift pump, its relatively cheap, and you will most likely be happy with the outcome. I have a Raptor 150 with the GLD big line kit, and now I see 20 PSI at idle, and anywhere from 15 to 17 WOT, and a minimum of 14 to 15 towing 12K pounds up some pretty brutal grades. Keeping a good constant flow to the VP44, above 14psi at WOT with a load, as I have learned is the best way of extending the life of the IP, and fueling the truck with properly. After my Raptor 150 install, I noticed significant increase in power, especially on longer grades with a full load, and a heavy right foot. Hope this is helfpul for you!

KATOOM

You are right on the money. This is why the OEM lift pump wakes up so much with larger fuel lines. Actually.....I found that the hard fuel line from the canister to the VP on my truck only had a 1/8" ID.....even though I understand that it's not the same on all the Cummins ISB's. Thats crazy small fuel line and I'm sure the reason it is even there was a poor attempt to reduce the VP's fuel pulses from damaging the lift pump. The OEM fuel lines are just to small and increasing them to 1/2" will greatly help stabilize fuel pressure from idle to WOT.

dkenny

well I went with AD after my VP died. I bought the truck used so I have no prior history. I did try to get by using Holly Blue pumps..

lets not confuse some information
you can get high pressure with small lines, but at the expense of volume. check your brake lines. 3/16" are common..psi much higher than fuel lines.
i would think that if someone had to keep the stock pump a larger feed line(tank to pump) would help the most. this would reduce the friction loss in the plumbing on the vacuum side. think about trying to drink from a small straw (think wd40 spray straw) vs a McD's drinking straw. but there is an upper limit too. a 1" feed line would be dumb.

what about the filter screen in the tank? still have it..more restriction.

-dkenny

KATOOM

Yes and no. I'll explain why I said no first..... The reason for larger fuel lines is because of the extra volume which those larger lines hold offsets the amount of fuel the fuel pump has to replace when the pressure drops. Essentially the fuel line acts as a holding tank which keeps the volume at demand which keeps the fuel pressure from dropping so much from idle to WOT. Anyone who uses a well to feed their home knows exactly what I mean. Why I said yes is because you're right about the size since there is no need to get too big because you're no longer offsetting any volume loss which cant be easily maintained by the fuel pump. Also, the fuel module filter screen offers no resistance because there is plenty of screen material.....unless its full of crud from bad fuel.

sluggo42

I start my truck and it usually hits up 15-16 psi. If I let it sit and idle I will find that it can slip down to 10-12. Now here is the weird part. All I have to do is rev the engine up a time or two, and the pressure jumps back up to 15-16. I'm even seeing it hit 17 now and then.

I am still thinking of dropping the tank, but am giving one of the "tank cleaning additives" a chance while I burn up the fuel in the tank.

Can anyone think of a reason why reving the engine would make the fuel pressure jump back up?


On a slightly different note, does anyone have a picture of the "screen" inside a tank, so I will know what I'm looking for? Or is it quite obvious?

Also, if I go to the point of actually dropping the tank, would it be stupid to NOT install a new drawstraw?