old 300

I have been using the 2 stroke oil for sometime and also Stanadyne. Today I was at the 1/4 mark on the fuel guage when I fuelled. I forgot to take along my oil mix. I drove 30 something miles to get home and I thought my truck was going to die. It was noisy and rough feeling. I dumped in about 12 ounces of oil and took a short 8 mile drive. Well I have to say that I'm totally 100% sure about it now. As far as noise, vibration, pep, feel, etc. it makes a huge difference. It was like getting out of a 2nd gen truck and hopping into a new 3rd gen. It works so much better.. I can't say anything about prolonging the life of the fuel system but on sound and feel alone I couldn't go without it.

NoSeeUm

Yeah, I think I am done with PS.

Just a bit of impromptu experimentation revealed that adding PS to 2 stroke oil, even in small quantities, the mixture got noticeably thinner than just the oil by itself.

You suppose the engine gets quieter running 2 stroke oil due to a timing offset?

Jim

Mopar1973man

I bet you can't light 2 cycle oi with a match... But you can light most other additive with a match... (Becareful some of them are explosive mixtures)...

Mineral spirits, xylene, and naptha are all very low flash point chemicals that allter the burn rate and igniton point of normal diesel. Hence why they are used for cetane boosters... And we all know why every winter the MPG's go down is because of HIGH CETANE fuels...

NoSeeUm

I suppose that is what I was trying to ask in a side ways sort of way. Makes me wonder sometimes if the timing stutter that I and others have experienced has more to do with winter fuels than OAT.

I worry about gelling somewhat, but I also think that for every diesel owner around here maybe 5-10 of them are not adding anything to their fuel. Maybe I will be alright.....

Jim

Mopar1973man

Ok let me do it the educational method...

CETANE DEFINED...
Cetane Number is a measure of the ignition quality of a diesel fuel. It is often mistaken as a measure of fuel quality. Cetane number is actually a measure of a fuel's ignition delay. This is the time period between the start of injection and start of combustion (ignition) of the fuel. In a particular diesel engine, higher cetane fuels will have shorter ignition delay periods than lower cetane fuels.
There is no benefit to using a higher cetane number fuel than is specified by the engine's manufacturer. The ASTM Standard Specification for Diesel Fuel Oils (D-975) states, "The cetane number requirements depend on engine design, size, nature of speed and load variations, and on starting and atmospheric conditions. Increase in cetane number over values actually required does not materially improve engine performance. Accordingly, the cetane number specified should be as low as possible to insure maximum fuel availability." This quote underscores the importance of matching engine cetane requirements with fuel cetane number!!!

CUMMINS REQUIREMENT

FLASH POINT DEFINED
The flash point of a flammable liquid is the lowest temperature at which it can form an ignitable mixture in air. At this temperature the vapor may cease to burn when the source of ignition is removed. A slightly higher temperature, the fire point, is defined as the temperature at which the vapor continues to burn after being ignited. Neither of these parameters are related to the temperatures of the ignition source or of the burning liquid, which are much higher. The flash point is often used as one descriptive characteristic of liquid fuel, but it is also used to describe liquids that are not used intentionally as fuels.
(gasoline) is designed for use in an engine which is driven by a spark. The fuel should be premixed with air within its flammable limits and heated above its flash point, then ignited by the spark plug. The fuel should not preignite in the hot engine. Therefore, gasoline is required to have a low flash point and a high autoignition temperature. Diesel is designed for use in a high-compression engine. Air is compressed until it has been heated above the autoignition temperature of diesel; then the fuel is injected as a high-pressure spray, keeping the fuel-air mix within the flammable limits of diesel. There is no ignition source. Therefore, diesel is required to have a high flash point and a low autoignition temperature.

• Petrol:
  • Flash point: > -43 °C (-45 °F [negative, below freezing point of water at +32 F])
    Autoignition temperature: 246 °C (475 °F)
  Diesel:
  • Flash point: >62 °C (143 °F)
    Autoignition temperature: 210 °C (410 °F)
  Jet Fuel:
  • Flash Point: >38 °C (100 °F)
    Autoignition Temperature: 210 °C (410 °F)
  Kerosene:
  • Flash point: >38-72 °C (100-162 °F)
    Autoignition temperature: 220 °C (428 °F)

Diesel varies between 126F and 204F (52C-96C/WJ). Jet fuels also vary a lot. Jet A and jet A-1 have a FP between 100F and 150F (38C-66C/WJ), close to that of off the shelf kerosene. However, both Jet B and FP-4 have a FP between -10F thru +30F (-23C/-1C/WJ)
Autoignition Definition

The autoignition temperature or kindling point of a substance is the lowest temperature at which it will spontaneously ignite in a normal atmosphere without an external source of ignition, such as a flame or spark. This temperature is required to supply the activation energy needed for combustion. The temperature at which a chemical will detonate decreases as the pressure increases or oxygen concentration increases. It is usually applied to a combustible fuel mixture.
Autoignition temperatures of liquid chemicals are typically measured using a 500 mL flask placed in a temperature controlled oven in accordance with the procedure described in ASTM E659 [1]. The commonly accepted autoignition temperature of paper, 451 °F (233 °C), is well known because of the popular novel Fahrenheit 451 by author Ray Bradbury (although the actual autoignition temperature depends on the type of pulp used in the paper's manufacture, chemical content, paper thickness, and a variety of other characteristics).

Basically when you get down to it you working with a fine balance of temperature, ignition points, burn rates, etc... Everything you add to your fuel will cause a change in it. The whole trick is to keep the BTU's as high as possible and burn rates slow but not to slow.

Cetane boosters (>45 cetane) tend to ignite and burn like gasoline. Explode and burn rapidily like a huge hammer in the cylinder hammer down on the piston. This is the diesel knock you here. But when you reduce the cetane level back down toward 40 you get less of that knock. (Burn rate slowed)

Remember with boost pressures too cause the autoignition temps to fall rapily too. So with the use of cetane booster and high boost pressure will cause a very early and quick burning fuel that produces less power in total. Look at you fuel mileage every winter when cetane levels are high the MPG's go down... And in the summer time when the cetane goes down the MPG's go up...

I better quit...

NoSeeUm

Interesting....

So you are saying we should be adding cetane "buckers" for the winter?

Got any idea how much 2 stroke oil effects the CN?

Jim

Mopar1973man

If cetane booster is made from low flash point an low BTU materials like Naptha (zippo lighter fluid or Coleman stove fuel), Xylene (paint thinner), or Mineral Spirits (paint thinner), and Naphthalene (Mothballs)... And trhese material are all right at 15,000-19,000 BTU's much lower than diesel fuel itsself at 147,000 BTU's...

Then if you have a high flash point material like 2 cycle oil it going to be a cetane reducer. But the BTU's of 2 Cycle Oil is right at ~138,000 BTU's

Take a look at the MSDS sheets here...
http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/2002%2...DS%20Links.htm

Take a look at chemical definitions here...
http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/2002%2.../chemicals.htm

Take a look at BTU values of common chemicals...
http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/2002%2...l/btus/btu.htm

More BTU's the more HP/TQ you produce and the better your MPG's are going to be...

As for winterized fuel it usually treated with a pou point depressant... Well here is your pour point depressant...
http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/m...7/wcd007de.htm
Nothing more than K1 Kerosene... (134,000 BTU's)

Most snowmobile 2 cycle oil is all ready treated with a pour point depressant that will allow for usage as low as -40*F... But the 2 cycle oil still is highier in BTU's over K1 Kerosene...

But why worry about cetane levels when todays fuel is roughly 43-47 Cetane already... (Chevron Fuels)
http://www.cpchem.com/enu/tds_unsecu...el_summary.pdf

erics76

Well after reading page after page after page on this site and others, I took the two stroke oil plunge. I have to say what everyone else has. After a minute or two, the pump is quieter, idle smoother, power seems smoother. I ran it for a day then my wife rode with me. Within a minute of it running, she says "what did you do to your truck, it's quieter?". I kid you not. It had to be a pretty large difference for her to notice. That sold it for me. A big thanks to Mopar1973 man for his research and testing.

NoSeeUm

Yeah, this got me to doing research as well.

Cetane specifically is explained here. Reading through this has caused me some confusion.

Cetane CN = 100
Naphthalene CN = 0

Fuel additive increases CN
Fuel additive contains Naphthalene

Naphthalene should lower the CN correct? As well as the lubricity?

Jim

Mopar1973man

Hmmm... But its quite funny that Naphthalene is used in some cetane boosters.

But I can see how it could become a reducer too...
Autoignition temp of 977*F I don't think the Cummins can create that much compression to get temps that high...

But it does have a relative low flash point of 174*F-188*F roughly. So if the compression doesn't get it the igniting fuel will...

Dangerous Dave

I gotta fill up in the am. It's gonna take 40 gallons easy.

I'm gonna put in at least 30oz of tcw-3

I really don't think I could get 700 miles out of a tank without it.

MikeBC

OK, I added 48 oz of tcw-3 to a very full tank for the 1st time, and now I have a problem - I can't hear the truck anymore!
WOW, where is the rattle, where's the clankitty clank clank???? Wow, it made a huge difference in noise

bentwings

mike bc,
It's like magic isn't it?? Gotta be good.

I used to live over in Lexington. Ran my boat on both Lake Norman and High Rock Lakes.

babyjoe

The stuff works, can't remember who posted it,but I will tell it again, Go to Wal-Mart you can get a gallon of 2-stroke oil for $8bucks....I don't care what anyone says it works, I can't tell you about hp gains cause I started using it the same day I put my power puck in.As far as the noise level going down it makes a world of diff.....Thanks for the info guys, Can't say it enough this site rocks.....

MikeBC

bentwings - not to hyjack, but LKN rocks! I hope you found the sandbar & all the 1/2 necked q-t's I guess they fish here too...LOL

Yes, the 2 stroke oil is amazing, my neighbors will even thank you!