Ok the saga continues. I have found another new long block at a favorable price. It is an RV engine with a good block (non #53) But a problem, The 02 does not have the crank sensor, the '99 does. Anyone know what is involved in making this engine work without replacing the crank? Any help on this is appreciated. I just can't stand the idea of replacing the crank on a brand new engine.

 

Wow not a single hit, thought someone would have this information.

 

The only thing I can think of is going with a 2002 PCM.
(or maybe even a 2001)


phox

 

What I was thinking was the 2002 ECM and wiring harness, but like you say I wonder if the PCM is the same or will work. I figured some must have dealt with this problem. Thanks phox....

 

I had something similar but not quite.

I had a 97 V-10 that I blew up so we put a new 96 V-10 engine in under warranty. Did not work...different computer and software...I had no power and 3 mpg empty.

If thats an RV engine, is that not different then the one in the RAM? Probably just external parts that need to be swapped but if its an RV app then its going to have a Cummins programmed ECM not the DC program and I think the ECM has two 50 pin plugs on the RV and one on the 99.

 

From DodeRam.org:

Engine RPM and timing are derived from the Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) on 1998-2000 models. A 35 tooth tone ring with a gap where the 36th tooth should be is bolted to the crankshaft. A hall effect sensor registers each tooth as it passes and sends the signal to the ECM. The tooth gap corresponds to 60 degrees BTDC of cylinder #1.
A Camshaft Position Sensor (CMP) senses a hole in the back of the camshaft drive gear to check for TDC of cylinder #1. This signal is used for diagnostic purposes and is not used to control the fuel system.
The crankshaft position sensor was deleted for 2001 and 2002 models; engine speed, crankshaft position, and injection timing information will be derived from the camshaft position sensor signal. Notches are cut into the rear face of the camshaft gear. A hall effect sensor registers each notch as it passes, and sends the signal to the ECM. A missing notch corresponds to TDC of cylinder #1.

http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/ECM/index.html

I'm guessing that the crank is the missing link here.

What happened to your engine? I've been busy and probably miss d the post on that.

Chris

 

As far as the mechanical installation, I have that configuration in the truck right now. That part is not a problem, but the change to the later build is due to the different electronics. Looks like the crank must be changed to get the crank sensor. This time I will not even change the timing case as there is enough room for it. The bolt on accessory brackets are different, the exhaust is different, the dipstick is in the wrong place, the turbo drain is different. Went through all that last time. The turbo on the complete engine is the same. I can get the long block for $3400 exchange or the complete engine for $5300 no exchange. May just go for the complete and then only lack a few parts to have a complete engine here in case.

Injection pump is 2500 rpm, the injectors are small, 210 horse. But the same build is the RV275 with the larger injectors. I have the same engine with a bad block in the truck now, earlier build. Pulls like a locomotive. Neatest thing is the cool running and low torque. It is hard to hit 1100 on the EGT. Even having the injection pump on hand for emergency use is a plus.

But what to do about the darn crank. Hate to pull it on a new engine.

 

Been studing wiring schematics. Looks like the Cummins ECM does the duty of both the ECM and the PCM from Dodge. Should not be too hard to connect the harness from the Cummins commercial engine to the Dodge system. Will need a couple of plugs from a junk yard and will lose a little hair and do some soldering. When done I will have the options of hooking up high idle and other stuff from the Cummins ECM. Not sure how the EZ will work out, may have to get a later year model.

 

Guys,
new on here....
I've just registered to "help" this guy to get to the correct path.
I think a lot of you know me from TDR.

Haulin_in_Dixie

You can't use the Cummins ECM in the Dodge. The Cummins ECM speaks a different "language". You can get the engine to run with the Cummins ECM but the hard/impossible part is to get the Cummins ECM talk to the PCM and dash cluster. With the Dodge-Cummins ECM a few informations are passed from the ECM to the dash directly others are passed from the ECM to the PCM and then to the rest of the truck. It's impossible to get the Cummins ECM to talk to the PCM/Dash.

The other way would be to use your Dodge ECM . Now you run into another problem, the Crankshaft sensor....

From 01.5 on the Cummins in the Dodge does no longer use the Crankshaft sensor. The ECM has a different part number for the two versions.

In other words a DC dealership won't be able to program your '99 ECM with a 2001.5 software. You'd need to find a 01.5 ECM...

Is all that trouble worth it?

Wouldn't it be easyer to find the correct engine for your application.

Sorry to sound so negative but at least now you know what kinda problems you'll face .

 

Thank you for the information. At this point it is a little moot, as i have just found a RV275 engine from a Cummins engineer in Indiana for $3850 that is complete and has the crank sensor. The engine is the correct build so I can go either way and has the compressor on it. The engine has less than 5000 miles on it and was used by Cummins for testing in a Freightliner. As this is not exchange I will still have a complete engine to build from the original parts. I may even try it with the 2600 rpm VP44. It has the RV275 injectors already in it with all accessories except the alternator.

Dodge uses an ECM that is basically one half of the Cummins unit and the other half is the PCM. With the wiring changed to suit the feeds of the right half of the Cummins ECM and the gage feeds going to the PCM as in stock the Cummins ECM can be used. I put a lot of homework into this as I was purchasing a 2002 RV275 and would have had to use the later ECM.

The right half of the ECM runs the engine and is incorporated in the wiring harness of the engine. With the proper +12 and ignition hooked up to the Cummins harness the engine runs fine and is the method it is used for retrofit. From there the OEM has the gages and the left half of the ECM. Dodge uses the PCM instead. The injector pumps are interchangeable, nice upgrade for an FL60 just put a Dodge VP44 on it. In this case the throttle wiring has to have a harness made up to mate with the Cummins wiring harness.

The left half of the ECM handles the gages, and accessory features and the engines come with no harness hooked up to that port. From the main harness of the engine the necessary wires have to be traced and patched to the Dodge wiring for the PCM and smart dash to function. The pinouts on the right half are different than Dodge so rewiring is necessary if not using the Cummins harness. The circuits in the left half (smart dash) do not have to be used or hooked up, where the PCM still handles these duties. A homemade harness can be made to enable the features of the left half that are desired such as the high idle switch, exhaust brake enable, and the engine powered cruise control which is electronic and self contained with some switches.

A novice in electronics would not pull this off but it is just time and correct wiring. The ECM controls the engine, the PCM controls the dash. The engine does not care which unit controls the engine.

 

$3850 is not a bad price for an RV engine.
But, I think you would be better off finding a used Chrysler version engine.

Your going to change a hole bunch of parts trying to get that RV/ISB engine trying to run in your truck.

The RV engine also has higher compression, a different tranny adapter, different flywheel or flexplate, a differe front case and cover etc, different fuel lines, different vp44 (which you have noted).

My advice is find a new or used block only from a Cummins dealer or even EBAY.
I remember seeing a brand new chrysler ISB for about 5k a couple weeks back.

--Justin

 

Side note:
All industrials use a crankshaft sensor.

Only the DCX's stopped using them in 01.

--Justin

 

You forget, I already have one in the truck. I have already made these changes as necessary. With the fass fuel system only the exhaust manifold has to be changed. The trans adaptor and flywheel bolts up same as the stock engine. Also the 2002 commercial engine does not have the crank sensor. I had one picked out and decided not to use it. After pulling loads with the commercial engine I do not want the stock engine. A little matter of the Dodge engine has 460 ft pounds of torque and the commercial (rv275) has 660. Depending on the particular model I may have to move the dipstick, also the turbo drain. Some changes with plugs, everything else bolts up, all the holes are there.