1st Gen. Ram - All Topics Discussion for all Dodge Rams prior to 1994. This includes engine, drivetrain and non-drivetrain discussions. Anything prior to 1994 should go in here.

VE rebuild questions

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Old Jun 14, 2011 | 08:06 PM
  #16  
huntinguy's Avatar
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Could be an injector stuck open.
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Old Jun 16, 2011 | 09:17 PM
  #17  
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From: Palo Cedro, CA
How can I confirm that?
are there any other possibilities. It's killing me not to drive it now that it is running so much better, but I don't want to mess it up.
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Old Jun 16, 2011 | 09:21 PM
  #18  
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Crack the injector lines with it running. You'll be able to hear which one is causing the mis.
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Old Jun 16, 2011 | 09:44 PM
  #19  
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From: Palo Cedro, CA
when I bleed the injectors with it running, each cyl misses when I crack the line. They all seem the same. If I hand pump the system to bleed, It starts up and idles smooth and quiet, then gradually starts getting noisy. My new lift pump is an airtex, looked kind of cheezy. It makes about 7psi at idle, only comes up a couple if I rev it no load.
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Old Jun 17, 2011 | 02:19 PM
  #20  
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It sounds like you are sucking in air somewhere.
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Old Jun 19, 2011 | 07:04 AM
  #21  
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What are the symptoms of these springs being broken? Is there a mileage zone where this occurs? My truck has 220,000+. This truck does not run or sound quite as smooth as my last one. Also, for what's done to it, it doesn't seem as strong as it should be. I've replaced injectors thinking maybe they were shot, but that had only a small effect. I have no air leaks, but the truck doesn't start as instantly as my last truck. I've always figured the pump is worn... But if this is all it is that would be great!
Can the springs be seen by removing the pump top? Is there any way of knowing if they are broke without removing the entire pump from the truck? I dont have a problem with taking the pump out, but I would like an easier diagnosis!
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Old Jun 19, 2011 | 08:24 AM
  #22  
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From: Palmyra, Nebraska
Originally Posted by joeytechman
so I ran the pickup / return tube assembly in a bucket of fuel. bubbles came from the return straw and were drawn right up by the supply. had bubbles in the clear line before lift pump. so I removed the hose from the pickup and put it in the bucket, away from from the return, bled at filter, bled injectors.
I've got a steady stream of good size bubbles coming from the return line. bubbles before lift pump are gone, engine is knocking.
I've replaced lift pump, fuel heater gasket.

what else could it be?
Your answer lies here, you're drawing air somewhere right at, or just before the injection pump and injection pressure is pushing it on through.

Double check that the inlet fitting on the pump is tight to the pump and make sure the line on it is tight.
Dunno' whether you are running the stock filter set-up or not, but check the washers that seal the inlet lines to the head.
Don't forget the split section that's on the stock line from the head to the injection pump, as well.

Mark.
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Old Jun 20, 2011 | 12:49 AM
  #23  
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From: Palo Cedro, CA
Originally Posted by TRENDZ
What are the symptoms of these springs being broken? Is there a mileage zone where this occurs? My truck has 220,000+. This truck does not run or sound quite as smooth as my last one. Also, for what's done to it, it doesn't seem as strong as it should be. I've replaced injectors thinking maybe they were shot, but that had only a small effect. I have no air leaks, but the truck doesn't start as instantly as my last truck. I've always figured the pump is worn... But if this is all it is that would be great!
Can the springs be seen by removing the pump top? Is there any way of knowing if they are broke without removing the entire pump from the truck? I dont have a problem with taking the pump out, but I would like an easier diagnosis!
My truck started easily, idled with what sounded like a lean misfire. Had absolutely no power. Cyl #1 was knocking. lots of blowby in sync with the knock. Had metal at the FSS

I also had a badly leaking intercooler, and I'm pretty sure a bad lift pump.
Lots of other issues muddyin the waters. Changing the springs was a leap forward. My power increased 500%

I've read here that you can see the springs with the top off
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Old Jun 21, 2011 | 07:41 PM
  #24  
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O.K. I was curious enough to remove my pump top. After gettting the top off and getting the fuel level in the case low enough, I could see only a small section of the plunger springs. The little bit of spring section I could see was not enough to confirm a broken spring. I reassembled the pump and ran the engine. Once it was warm, I aimed a temp gun at the top of each exhaust port and took readings. Cylinders 1,2,and 4 were around 160 degrees, give or take 10 degrees. Cylinders 3,5,and 6 were all very close to 190 degrees, give or take 5 degrees.
I looked at the sequence of injector lines on the pump, and cylinders 1,2, and 4 are on one side of the pump. The remaining lines are on the opposite side. I'm now fairly convinced that I have a broken spring.
Any thoughts or suggestions???
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Old Jun 21, 2011 | 07:56 PM
  #25  
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From: Palmyra, Nebraska
Take it totally apart and verify your suspicions.

That's probably the only way you'll be 100% certain and to allay your concerns that it may be broken springs.
Personally, I think if the springs are bad, it would run crappy across the board, not good on 3 and bad on 3.

Mark.
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Old Jun 21, 2011 | 08:44 PM
  #26  
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Yeah, after thinking about it, and how the pump functions, I agree with you. I have another theory on what might be wrong. I have a second gen lift pump with a mallory regulator. The fuel pressure pulses enough to make the gauge impossible to read. I can tell you that at idle, the gauge needle bounces between 5 and 20 lbs. I wonder if the piston pump is raising the case pressure high on three cylinders, and the regulator dumps on the other. The injection pump would be in time with the lobe on the cam for the lift pump.
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Old Jun 21, 2011 | 08:55 PM
  #27  
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From: Palmyra, Nebraska
With that much jumping around of the guage, chances are it's adding air to the fuel due to an internal leaking issue.

I do like the theory that it could be overpressurizing momentarily, as well.
That could really mess with the pump timing, which might account for the injection knock.

Do you have a stock lift pump around to try?

Mark.
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Old Jun 21, 2011 | 09:00 PM
  #28  
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From: Palo Cedro, CA
On all the pumps I have seen with broken springs,(3) one spring was broken in two pieces, the other into three. But due to the geometry of the assembly, being that the springs don't rotate, only the cam and plunger, I think that I would have to agree with Mark. You can get to the springs by just removing the head. I'd check your cam plate and rollers as well. Sounds like you are getting ready to pull the pump?

As far as my truck goes, I think my knock on cyl # 1 is a detonation, forcing gasses into the return, they in turn were getting sucked up by the supply in the tank. The return straw was sitting right on top of the pickup screen. I cut 1 1/2 inch off the return straw, re-installed tank, loaded my fuel with MMO and 2 stroke. The knock is all but gone, bubbles in the supply are gone. I've ran about 50 miles, so far so good. I am getting white smoke on startup, but it goes away in a minute.
I'm gonna pull the injectors from the donor, have them gone through by my local injection shop, and put them in. I suspect my timing may be off, I "eyeballed" it when I put the pump back together.
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