Hi,

Although I've been hanging around here for a while and learning an awful lot about these 1st gen trucks from you guys, this is my first post so bear with me.

My truck is a 93 d250 club cab and bone stock that I've owned for about a year and a half. If I knew how good it was, I would have bought a new one in 1993! I don't often pull a trailer and when I do it's never more than 8k total. It is used as a daily driver and is unloaded 99.5% of the time and driven by an old man. This past week the clutch has started making a horrible screeching/scraping noise when the clutch is pushed in. The clutch releases and holds just fine and allows normal shifting, but makes a lot of noise when the pedal is in. My thoughts are that the clutch release (throwout) bearing has given up the ghost. I'm also afraid that the defective bearing may have caused some damage to the 'finger springs' on the pressure plate. I haven't yet torn into it so I'm not sure which parts I'll need. It's been years since I've removed a transmission and replaced a clutch, and never one as heavy as this. My question has a couple of parts: first, can anybody who has done this repair provide any hints - anything I should look out for - any special tools - anything that might cause problems (or bleeding) any torque specs? Second, is there a good source for the parts with reasonable prices and quick shipping? The best prices I've found so far are at mydodgeparts.com ; has anybody ever done business with them?

My plan was to drop the drive shaft, remove the speed sensor, remove the shift lever and unbolt and remove the transmission (after supporting the rear of the engine). Then on to the bell housing and clutch parts, replacing what's damaged or broken. I'm going to replace the pilot bearing and maybe the clutch disc while I'm in there.

Any problems with this plan? Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.
Rick

 

Sure sounds like the throw out bearing. They can last a long time, a lot of sitting at lights with the pedal depressed and/or mostly "city" driving can be hard on it.

My advice would be to so it ONCE. Meaning, while you're in there, replace ALL wear parts related to the clutch and put a rear main seal on while you are at it.

It is pretty much self explanatory once you get things apart. If you need help you can post pictures and/or descriptions here and the members will guide you the right way.

If you were ever thinking of adding any more power you will want to factor that into the decision on what clutch to get. You can consider a few aftermarket clutch vendors (cause, getting a "stock" clutch is, well,.. gay)

I'll let the others chime in who know more about single disk clutches.

 

Oh, and YES, just about anyone with a brain and some tools can do this swap. A trans jack will make life easier and make for less foul language when putting the trans back in. (we used foul language doing mine even WITH a lift and nice trans jack, but I think that was just because we could and it adds flavor).

Having a strong buddy to lend a hand would be wise too. Your trans is probably cast and heavier than it should be.

 

Stock Clutch Facts from Terry Elders, Chrysler Engineer:

"clutch facts"
The original Sachs clutch I still think is the best deal going for the first gen trucks... The fleets used to get 3 to 400,000 miles out of them... Even then most of the failures were throw out bearings locking up then melting the fingers on the pressure plate... Hardly the fault of the clutch. Greasing the throw out would have saved most of them.

A year and a half ago I took the original clutch out of my 93 daily driver to inspect it and replace the throw out bearing and the leaking rear main seal.
It had 223,000 miles on it.. I measured the friction material on the disc and found that it was only .006 thinner than the new disc I had.. I just put it back in...

Granted I take care of my truck and do not over load it...I also know how to drive a stick. But most of the miles were city miles which are hard on clutches...

There has never been a clutch ever come out of Detroit in a light vehicle that has had as an outstanding service record as the one that was put in the first gen trucks... Not ever !

The 12" that came in the 94 up trucks was redesigned in 94 because it was obvious that the Sachs 13 was made too well and cost us too much...
There was a service bulletin put out on the change...It said that the new smaller lighter clutch was the "new improved model " to stop clutch chatter problems... It also said that it was to be used in place of the 13" in the early trucks for better performance...

It was all a lie ! The purpose of the redesigned 12" was to save cost and weight... The only thing that really improved was Chryslers profit margin...
The newer 12 " cost 1/3 of what the 13" did.. Interestingly enough the list price never came down in the dealers price list...

One last thing I will mention is that ...When the trucks were first being developed we tried all the clutches that we had used in the gas trucks + a whole lot of others... None of them held up well enough during testing to be used in production... It was decided that a whole new clutch needed to be developed if we were going to get the trucks threw warrantee with out failure.
Chrysler and Sachs engineers both worked for 3 years developing the clutch we used. It was over built due to the fact that we did not know what to expect. As you all know the Cummins engine just does not quit...The clutch is the weak link...We just made sure it was not ... By the 93 model we knew that the clutch was too good.. It had less than 2% failure rate in the first 4 years it was used.... Another thing to note is that the 13" first gen clutch
was never used in any other truck , tractor or machine on the planet except
our 89 to 93 diesel trucks... It's been 14 years since it was last used. I suspect that it will soon be discontinued.... Or in Chrysler lingo....they will be
"NS1" Sadly enough...A term that all the first gen guys are going to be getting well acquainted
with in the future."



There you have it... You have been informed, you make the call

 

..........(Edit)..........

Not saying the guys points aren't totally educated and valid, I just doubt whatever Chrysler was installing in the early 90's has had as much R&D as what can be bought from Southbend today.

A lot of guys TOTALLY abuse their trucks, sled pulling, towing over double the manufacturers recommended weights, 4WD boosted 3rd gear launches.

I can assure you 100% under THOSE conditions, the stocker would last about 25-30 minutes.

 

The Sachs clutch is an excellant clutch but with the extended cab long bed it tends to chatter if you try to slip it. That being said I switched to South Bends Con-O which does not chatter at launch with or without a load.

It's your call good luck!

Bob

 

The Sachs wasn't designed for racing/pulling but it was overbuilt for the stock power of our trucks. Mine doesn't chatter, but I have the reg cab.

Maddog93, it is your call as to your intended uses of the vehicle, and budget.

If you're going to get a SB single or DD clutch for sled pulling 3rd gear launches with a first gen:

1. Definitely ditch the stocker clutch, its gay
2. ditch the whole 1st gen motor as well just put a 98.0 12V in there or a p pumped 24V engine from a later truck, or I guess just anything but the 1st gen engine will do.
3. put set of rockwells under it (or at least at a minimum a dana 80) and convert your wimpy D250 club cab to a 4x4
4. replace whole transmission with a g56 or nv5600/nv4500 at minimum (or better yet switch to a custom sled pulling trans)
5. twins
6. big sticks
7. four bar link rear end (no flimsy leaf springs)
8. N02 water meth alcohol all that fancy injection stuff
9. or just screw it get a 2006 and copy the mods P.J has on his truck
10. better yet just buy a Freightliner, CAT powered of course, and abuse the heck out of it.

P.J you need not defend the superiority of aftermarket products. But in this case there was a stocker around that is a special custom design for our trucks, not some afterthought.
Terry is not "some guy". It was he and one other "guy" in 1983 that slugged a cummins into a d250 for fun at chrysler that launched the first trucks in 1989... Thanks to "that guy" the cummins trucks were born and have developed into the vehicle you own and Abuse now. BTW you might be interested in paying him a visit, he lives in MD.

 

Jeez, take a pill fella. You're swinging from "that guy's" "sach", wouldn't you say?

Reminding me why I hope CA snaps off into the Pacific Ocean someday.....

 

Thanks for the info. This truck won't be pulling sleds or receiving big injectors; it's just a stock truck driven easily.

Bob, thanks for the suggestion about the rear seal. I hadn't thought about that.

I still would like to hear suggestions about places where parts can be gotten at a reasonable price. The local dealer is 'full retail' and will take 4-5 business days to get anything I need.

Thanks to all who responded.

Rick

 

Maddog,

My '91 bone stock W250 has had the Getrag rebuilt twice and the throwout once, it now has 500+ K on the clock. It pulled a 25ft goose w/ cattle for many of those miles. The original Sachs is still doing well. If you don't pull hard and heavy and the disc still measures out well...keep it. On the occasions I did my throwout bearing and Getrags I found that pulling the transmixer and t-case as a unit was the way to go (with lifts available you can get the unit out in about 25-35 minutes...thats taking it easy). I kept it all hooked together at the crossmember and broke her loose at the bell. Combined they weight alot but with a decent lift balanced at the crossmember it doable.
Have a rear main handy. I usually prescribe to the "if it ain't broke" philosophy but it cost me another teardown with the rear main. It let loose about 10K after the last Getrag rebuild . Also, I got some gasket material and re-sealed the t-case while it was laying on the floor.

Cheers,

20f

 

From what ive heard the sach's clutch can hold 400 HP if you dont dump it and do 2nd gear launches all the time. 400 HP is alot on a stock clutch. I'd just go with a southbend Con-0 or the cheapest upgrade clutch that southbend offers so when we get you to start tweaking screws you can have some fun.

 

<Gasp>!!!!


How dare you? Be prepared for the wrath of PapeCAT!

 

Call Peter at Southbend, 1-800-988-4345. Tell him what you have, what you could possible do in the future. He WILL NOT oversell you.

Whole kit with new flywheel less than $700. As I said, DO IT ONCE and be done for the rest of the time you own the truck.

 

Thanks, P.J That's the kind of info I was looking for.

Rick

 

This is bad advice. Do not buy anybody's 12.25" clutch, the center of the clutch disc is too weak and you will break it out. Settle for nothing less than a 13" clutch. The Sachs is a good deal if you don't plan on sled pulling or doing 3rd gear launches. A 13" Con-O is no better than the Sachs for abuse like that, but it does offer smoother engagement and a little lighter pedal.