Enviro-Safe Refrigerant
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Enviro-Safe Refrigerant
Anyone ever use the Enviro-Safe A/C recharge kit? It seems pretty cost effective and it does not look like you have to change hoses like 134. My A/C has finally stopped blowing cold so I was exploring some options.
Any thoughts...
Any thoughts...
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From: Buies Creek, NC
Enviro-Safe™ Refrigerant is a proprietary blended ultra high efficient hydrocarbon refrigerant direct replacement for HFC-134a and R-12 Substitutes
Enviro-Safe™ Refrigerant is flammable to an open flame or spark and is rated as a Flammable Gas 2. This means there is a moderate chance of fire or flame. However, flammable products are used every day within the household, business and in automobiles.
Aerosol products such as hairspray, room deodorizers, under arm deodorant, penetrating oil, WD 40, etc are all classed as a flammable and are used all over the USA and the world as a safe product in home and automotive used when used as per manufacture directions. Hairspray = Flammable 3, Gasoline = Flammable 4, Starting Fluid = Flammable 4, Enviro-Safe™ Refrigerant = Flammable 2. Enviro-Safe Refrigerant can be used safely in automobiles just like other flammable automotive products required in vehicle operation. All flammable products require your respect, adequate precaution and safe use practices. Follow all directions on the can or label.
Aerosol products such as hairspray, room deodorizers, under arm deodorant, penetrating oil, WD 40, etc are all classed as a flammable and are used all over the USA and the world as a safe product in home and automotive used when used as per manufacture directions. Hairspray = Flammable 3, Gasoline = Flammable 4, Starting Fluid = Flammable 4, Enviro-Safe™ Refrigerant = Flammable 2. Enviro-Safe Refrigerant can be used safely in automobiles just like other flammable automotive products required in vehicle operation. All flammable products require your respect, adequate precaution and safe use practices. Follow all directions on the can or label.
Much more info here ~ http://www.es-refrigerants.com/produ.../3/default.asp
From what I understand, this is a proprietary blend of what might be akin to propane. It works well but, when it comes to most automobile repair shops, they won't touch the system as it's not compatible with their recovery/reclaim systems among many other issues.
My 15+ years in HVAC and Refrigeration points to the fact these blends are not mainstream just yet (if ever). I personally would shy away from it for now and go with something more conventional.
I would recommend you try HotShot 414b. ~ http://www.r-414b.net/
It's a drop in replacement with a slightly higher efficiency (8%) sporting characteristics much like the original R12. In your application, you'd only use 80% of the original R12 charge (weight). I would be surprised if you couldn't, with a few phone calls, find a refrigeration tech who'd be glad to tune you up for $15 or $20.
Hope this helps.
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Thanks for the info. I will admit I really do not know anything about AC but if I can find the leak it seems like one should be able to charge the system at home rather than having to take it in. Are there complete do-it-yourself packages for that or something sim.?
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The stick in the mud in your apparent case would be you don't have a vacuum pump. 
One needs to completely evacuate the refrigeration circuit of all non-condensible gases (air, etc) introduced during disassembly. Additionally, by introducing a very low vacuum, you also remove any moisture (water) that would create multiple problems all its own.
As far as finding the leak, barring any actual mechanical damage, you can expect to simply replace all O-Rings in the actual plumbing along with the aluminum gasket found on the butt of the compressor where the line-set connects (or something like that). When getting the O-Rings, be sure they're compatible with AC lubricants, etc. If you want to go by the book, you'll also replace the receiver/drier (the black can next to the OEM air filter box. The thing with the sight-glass) as it typically contains a sack of some kind of desiccant chemical drier.
Again, hope this helps.
One needs to completely evacuate the refrigeration circuit of all non-condensible gases (air, etc) introduced during disassembly. Additionally, by introducing a very low vacuum, you also remove any moisture (water) that would create multiple problems all its own.
As far as finding the leak, barring any actual mechanical damage, you can expect to simply replace all O-Rings in the actual plumbing along with the aluminum gasket found on the butt of the compressor where the line-set connects (or something like that). When getting the O-Rings, be sure they're compatible with AC lubricants, etc. If you want to go by the book, you'll also replace the receiver/drier (the black can next to the OEM air filter box. The thing with the sight-glass) as it typically contains a sack of some kind of desiccant chemical drier.
Again, hope this helps.
I wish I had a work truck with all the goodies. Thanks for the input...
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From: WY
Originally Posted by Paul S.
Thanks for the info. I will admit I really do not know anything about AC but if I can find the leak it seems like one should be able to charge the system at home rather than having to take it in. Are there complete do-it-yourself packages for that or something sim.?
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From: East Central OK
You might also check out http://www.duracool.com/
I talked to a Duracool dealer the other year when I was up there in MN and it sounded promising.
I talked to a Duracool dealer the other year when I was up there in MN and it sounded promising.
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From: Washougal, WA (Columbia Gorge)
Originally Posted by BC847
The stick in the mud in your apparent case would be you don't have a vacuum pump.
I use one of my VW-diesel's for this
I add a couple 'inline filters', but the rebuild kit is ony $5 in case I screw something up. (it doesn't pull a 'complete vacuum', but @ 27-28", not bad !!) You could nab one (vw-diesel) off a wrecking yard for a couple bucks, if there is not one (an ole-d-rabbit) in your neighbor's briar patch. I'm not sure what our CTD pumps pull, but they are probably not so 'expedible'
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I checked out the Duracool website and it looks like I would need to change hoses as stated here, right?
"In the United States the EPA requires that systems using CFC-12 refrigerants must be retrofitted to
R-134a prior to the use of DURACOOL 12a® ."
Thoughts, you to BC, I am curious what a real pro thinks
"In the United States the EPA requires that systems using CFC-12 refrigerants must be retrofitted to
R-134a prior to the use of DURACOOL 12a® ."
Thoughts, you to BC, I am curious what a real pro thinks
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"In the United States the EPA requires that systems using CFC-12 refrigerants must be retrofitted to R-134a prior to the use of DURACOOL 12a® ."
The Duracool product falls in the same category as the Enviro-Safe product.
Components ~
methylethylmethane 15-40 %
2-methylpropane 30-60 %
dimethylmethane 40-70 %
NOTE ~ blah blahpropane, etc.
And based on the component percentages, they vary the blend.
As found here ~ http://www.deepfreezeinc.ca/msds.htm (see components).
Understand, I'm NOT suggesting these products don't work. I'm pointing out the fact that if you plan on having any commercial automobile AC company work on the system after you've install these products, most will not touch it as it screws with their reclaim/recovery equipment. Further, as these products are not mainstream, they can't justify the expense of tying up reclaim tanks with off the wall refrigerants.
And to stop the problem of refrigerants from being mixed, most require some form of unique connection fittings. Here again, this places hardware issues with many automobile AC contractors.
I'm not trying to make things difficult for you.
Just trying to steer you toward more commonly used refrigerants that won't present aggravating problems should the system need servicing down the road.
Questions and Answers on Alternative Refrigerants ~ http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/qa.html
Substitutes in Motor Vehicle Air Conditioners ~ http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrig...sts/mvacs.html (this list narrows things down quite nicely).
In addition to the HotShot (414b) that I suggested earlier, you also might look around for Freeze 12 ~ http://www.freeze12.com/
Hope this helps.
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From: Buies Creek, NC
I think there's confusion about needing new hoses.
I suspect what's being required are unique fitting so as to stop inadvertant mixing of refrigerants.
About new hoses ~
As found here ~ http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrig...s/chiller.html
I suspect what's being required are unique fitting so as to stop inadvertant mixing of refrigerants.
UNIQUE FITTINGS:
Each new refrigerant must be used with a unique set of fittings to prevent the accidental mixing of different refrigerants. These fittings are attachment points on the car itself, on all recovery and recycling equipment, on can taps and other charging equipment, and on all refrigerant containers. If the car is being retrofitted, any service fittings not converted to the new refrigerant must be permanently disabled. Unique fittings help protect the consumer by ensuring that only one type of refrigerant is used in each car. They also help protect the purity of the recycled supply of CFC-12, which means it will last longer, so fewer retrofits will be necessary nationwide. The list of fittings is available in an EPA fact sheet titled "Fitting Sizes and Label Colors for Motor Vehicle Refrigerants."
Each new refrigerant must be used with a unique set of fittings to prevent the accidental mixing of different refrigerants. These fittings are attachment points on the car itself, on all recovery and recycling equipment, on can taps and other charging equipment, and on all refrigerant containers. If the car is being retrofitted, any service fittings not converted to the new refrigerant must be permanently disabled. Unique fittings help protect the consumer by ensuring that only one type of refrigerant is used in each car. They also help protect the purity of the recycled supply of CFC-12, which means it will last longer, so fewer retrofits will be necessary nationwide. The list of fittings is available in an EPA fact sheet titled "Fitting Sizes and Label Colors for Motor Vehicle Refrigerants."
BARRIER HOSES:
HCFC-22, a component in some blends, can seep out through traditional hoses. Therefore, when using these blends, the technician must ensure that new, less permeable "barrier" hoses are used. These hoses must be installed if the system currently uses old, non-barrier hoses.. The table of refrigerants below notes this additional requirement where appropriate
HCFC-22, a component in some blends, can seep out through traditional hoses. Therefore, when using these blends, the technician must ensure that new, less permeable "barrier" hoses are used. These hoses must be installed if the system currently uses old, non-barrier hoses.. The table of refrigerants below notes this additional requirement where appropriate
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From: Buies Creek, NC
Originally Posted by janb
I use one of my VW-diesel's for this I add a couple 'inline filters', but the rebuild kit is ony $5 in case I screw something up. (it doesn't pull a 'complete vacuum', but @ 27-28", not bad !!) You could nab one (vw-diesel) off a wrecking yard for a couple bucks, if there is not one (an ole-d-rabbit) in your neighbor's briar patch. I'm not sure what our CTD pumps pull, but they are probably not so 'expedible'
I add a couple 'inline filters', but the rebuild kit is ony $5 in case I screw something up. (it doesn't pull a 'complete vacuum', but @ 27-28", not bad !!) You could nab one (vw-diesel) off a wrecking yard for a couple bucks, if there is not one (an ole-d-rabbit) in your neighbor's briar patch. I'm not sure what our CTD pumps pull, but they are probably not so 'expedible'Proper refrigeration practice calls for evacuating a refrigeration circuit to between 500 and 300 microns.
See ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum#Quality
I can't find a chart that shows how many thousand microns equals 28".
EDIT : "In vacuum physics the expression 'micron' is a unit of pressure. It stands for micrometre (micron) of mercury (µm Hg, see millimetre of mercury) which is equal to 0.13328 Pa" ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torr
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You are too much 
. Don't worry about steering me in the wrong direction, I barely have any to begin with. All the info is great. I started my whole search with the freeze12 product, funny how things come full circle. Thanks for all the great info, I love this place...
. Don't worry about steering me in the wrong direction, I barely have any to begin with. All the info is great. I started my whole search with the freeze12 product, funny how things come full circle. Thanks for all the great info, I love this place...
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From: Buies Creek, NC
WOW! 
Motor Vehicle Air Conditioning Substitutes for CFC-12 Reviewed Under EPA's SNAP Program as of March 29, 2006
~ http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrig...ler.html#note2
Further . . . .
As found on thier own website ~ http://www.es-refrigerants.com/faq/w/id/18/details.asp
Interesting wording . . . .
. . . . .
Motor Vehicle Air Conditioning Substitutes for CFC-12 Reviewed Under EPA's SNAP Program as of March 29, 2006
~ http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrig...ler.html#note2
Unacceptable refrigerants
HC-12a® 6/13/95, OZ Technology. Flammable blend of hydrocarbons; insufficient data to demonstrate safety.
Duracool 12a 6/13/95, Duracool Limited. This blend is identical to HC-12a® in composition but is manufactured by a different company
HC-12a® 6/13/95, OZ Technology. Flammable blend of hydrocarbons; insufficient data to demonstrate safety.
Duracool 12a 6/13/95, Duracool Limited. This blend is identical to HC-12a® in composition but is manufactured by a different company
Further . . . .
Is it legal to use Enviro-Safe™ Refrigerant in automotive applications?
Yes, in most countries throughout the world.
However, in the United States, the US EPA adopted the SNAP (Significant New Alternative Policy) concerning R12 systems, global warming and ozone depletion. Pre-1994 mobile air conditioning systems operated on CFC R12, which has been ruled environmentally unsafe because it contributes to global warming and ozone depletion. All R12 systems must be retrofieed prior to using any alternative or environmentally safe refrigerant. Please note: In the United States, Enviro-Safe Refrigerant is not a drop in replacement for R12.
Enviro-Safe Refrigerant may be used to replace HFC 134a and R12 substitutes in the majority of states within the United States. Enviro-Safe advises that you refer to your local, state and federal laws governing the sale and use of any refrigerant.
Yes, in most countries throughout the world.
However, in the United States, the US EPA adopted the SNAP (Significant New Alternative Policy) concerning R12 systems, global warming and ozone depletion. Pre-1994 mobile air conditioning systems operated on CFC R12, which has been ruled environmentally unsafe because it contributes to global warming and ozone depletion. All R12 systems must be retrofieed prior to using any alternative or environmentally safe refrigerant. Please note: In the United States, Enviro-Safe Refrigerant is not a drop in replacement for R12.
Enviro-Safe Refrigerant may be used to replace HFC 134a and R12 substitutes in the majority of states within the United States. Enviro-Safe advises that you refer to your local, state and federal laws governing the sale and use of any refrigerant.
Interesting wording . . . .
. . . . .