Drilling out the head for better fuel flow
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Joined: Apr 2012
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From: Townsend, MT
I may be incorrect but here goes:
Pressure is a consequence of volume and space. For instance: pumping a liquid at 5 gallons per minute (GPM) through a 3" diameter pipe will have much lower pressure than the same GPM through 1/2" pipe. The same volume of fluid is being forced through a smaller space and since it can't compress it must go faster hence more pressure.
I installed a low pressure (15 PSI) piston pump on my rig. ALL of the fuel lines are stock. Therefore, since it is pushing non-compressable fuel through the same amount of space at a higher pressure then it must be pushing more volume. More volume allows the injection pump to have more fuel supplied than it typically needs so more fuel is returned to the tank. My understanding is that the excess fuel lubricates the IP and scavenges heat away from the IP and into the tank. As I understand it more volume is better until you create enough pressure to blow the front seal out of the pump unless you secure it with screws.
Pressure is a consequence of volume and space. For instance: pumping a liquid at 5 gallons per minute (GPM) through a 3" diameter pipe will have much lower pressure than the same GPM through 1/2" pipe. The same volume of fluid is being forced through a smaller space and since it can't compress it must go faster hence more pressure.
I installed a low pressure (15 PSI) piston pump on my rig. ALL of the fuel lines are stock. Therefore, since it is pushing non-compressable fuel through the same amount of space at a higher pressure then it must be pushing more volume. More volume allows the injection pump to have more fuel supplied than it typically needs so more fuel is returned to the tank. My understanding is that the excess fuel lubricates the IP and scavenges heat away from the IP and into the tank. As I understand it more volume is better until you create enough pressure to blow the front seal out of the pump unless you secure it with screws.
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Joined: Jan 2012
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From: North carolina
We need a few more like OFELAS on here! one of the few that will send parts for free ( see how many will do that), offer to lend helping hand, or answer questions any time of day or night,.. ( i personally dont think the man sleeps ..., of course thats another discussion ,how could one not chuckle over something so factually mis guided as 100% antifreeze.... some people are just too serious, use the info you need, laugh off the rest ....(drink guiness)......
Well summarized.
That is exactly what I said in my first post #8 to this thread; best to read the message, rather than castigate the messenger.
Unfortunately, post #14 was a bit snippety.
Not sure where I initiated a reference to maple wood or 100% antifreeze...though it certainly was fun to play along after the factual answers to the initial OP questions were given
That is exactly what I said in my first post #8 to this thread; best to read the message, rather than castigate the messenger.
Unfortunately, post #14 was a bit snippety.
Not sure where I initiated a reference to maple wood or 100% antifreeze...though it certainly was fun to play along after the factual answers to the initial OP questions were given
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 541
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From: Outdoors
More flow across the bearings is a good thing.
However, its LESS pressure (not more pressure) that leads to more flow, as oil pressure is created by a fluid flow restriction in the pump outlet.
Oil pumps produce a certain flow at a particular rpm. The resistance to that flow produces pressure. Bearing clearances contribute to that resistance to flow.
Its a balancing act of pressure vs flow in an oiling systems case.
However, its LESS pressure (not more pressure) that leads to more flow, as oil pressure is created by a fluid flow restriction in the pump outlet.
Oil pumps produce a certain flow at a particular rpm. The resistance to that flow produces pressure. Bearing clearances contribute to that resistance to flow.
Its a balancing act of pressure vs flow in an oiling systems case.
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 873
Likes: 63
From: Townsend, MT
More flow across the bearings is a good thing.
However, its LESS pressure (not more pressure) that leads to more flow, as oil pressure is created by a fluid flow restriction in the pump outlet.
Oil pumps produce a certain flow at a particular rpm. The resistance to that flow produces pressure. Bearing clearances contribute to that resistance to flow.
Its a balancing act of pressure vs flow in an oiling systems case.
However, its LESS pressure (not more pressure) that leads to more flow, as oil pressure is created by a fluid flow restriction in the pump outlet.
Oil pumps produce a certain flow at a particular rpm. The resistance to that flow produces pressure. Bearing clearances contribute to that resistance to flow.
Its a balancing act of pressure vs flow in an oiling systems case.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 541
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From: Outdoors
Neither.
Simply more non relieved pressure because of stiffer spring, and more flow due to larger displacement pump. Generally balances pressure vs flow out, and ideally used with thinner oils for less HP loss.
Read oils used for track qualifying here.
Apples to apples with the same relief spring.
When one throws in a higher psi rated bypass relief spring, all it does is limit the max pressure before bypass. It doesn't do anything to increase flow across the bearings.
That's easier achieved by stepping down a grade of oil weight, as long as minimum idle/per 1000rpm pressure is maintained.
The 6BT was originally spec'd for 30w at the hot end of the rating.
The reason for mineral 15W40 oil was because it sheared down real quick to 30 grade.
A no/low shear modern 10w30 oil, achieved by using synthetics/blends, provides optimum flow across bearings in our application, with no pressure related setbacks.
Even with looser bearing clearances ;-)
Simply more non relieved pressure because of stiffer spring, and more flow due to larger displacement pump. Generally balances pressure vs flow out, and ideally used with thinner oils for less HP loss.
Read oils used for track qualifying here.
Apples to apples with the same relief spring.
When one throws in a higher psi rated bypass relief spring, all it does is limit the max pressure before bypass. It doesn't do anything to increase flow across the bearings.
That's easier achieved by stepping down a grade of oil weight, as long as minimum idle/per 1000rpm pressure is maintained.
The 6BT was originally spec'd for 30w at the hot end of the rating.
The reason for mineral 15W40 oil was because it sheared down real quick to 30 grade.
A no/low shear modern 10w30 oil, achieved by using synthetics/blends, provides optimum flow across bearings in our application, with no pressure related setbacks.
Even with looser bearing clearances ;-)
Very true. If we take an oiling system that runs 40 PSI at 2000 RPM and swap in a larger displacement pump and up the pressure relief setting so that we have 60 PSI at 2000 RPM, we have more flow and pressure - whether we have more flow because of more pressure or more pressure because we have more flow I do not know.
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Joined: Jul 2009
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From: Phoenix AZ
Very true. If we take an oiling system that runs 40 PSI at 2000 RPM and swap in a larger displacement pump and up the pressure relief setting so that we have 60 PSI at 2000 RPM, we have more flow and pressure - whether we have more flow because of more pressure or more pressure because we have more flow I do not know.
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Registered User
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 541
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From: Outdoors
Theres still hope for you.
Change vocations from a DexCool world tech to a certified MS9769 tech and all will be well.
Can't wait to see that drugged 12v come to life
Change vocations from a DexCool world tech to a certified MS9769 tech and all will be well.
Can't wait to see that drugged 12v come to life
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 873
Likes: 63
From: Townsend, MT
I am no scientist, but in water hydraulics pressure and volume are inversely proportional, meaning that with half the pressure, you have twice the volume and vice versa. If we pumped a 2 stage pump in series, one in line with the other, it is twice the pressure and half the volume and if connected in parallel, side by side, it is the opposite. That is using the same size hose for both. The formula for Gallons per minute is 30 (2.72) times diameter squared, times the square root of the pressure. I know that this is much higher volumes, but are the concepts the same for petroleum hydraulics?...Mark
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Joined: May 2005
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Sounds like I need to get my testing and balancing buddy on this tread and DTR. He's majorly certified in HVAC Test and Balance, and knows more than anyone will forget, when it comes to balancing hydronics, and air. Pump design, fan design, piece of cake for Pat.
Too bad he's not into diesels.
Too bad he's not into diesels.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 105
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From: New Jersey
Hey everyone,
Sorry I haven't been on in a few weeks. I've been busy with work, my engagement to my fiance, and fixing some odds and ends on my truck. the front seal on my trans was leaking and my engine mounts were snapped so i fixed that and i did the Keating Machine rear freeze plug (which seems to be leaking) but I don't know if I am still going to make my own system or just buy a fass/airdog. Yes I can make my own but I feel like it'll be more beneficial to just get a performance aftermarket pump. More money but better filtration and the added benefit of air removal.
The only thing I'm not sure of is will my egts go up or down because I should be getting better atomization from constant pressure and cooler fuel.
Also I'm looking to inter-cool the truck now. I'm going to try and do the 2nd gen inter-cooler but I wasn't sure if my spool would stay the same or be better or slower. my boost should drop a bit just from having more volume. but right now its 3" straight from turbo to manifold. i think the second gen is 2.5" so how will that effect me performance wise?
Thanks for all your help and opinions everyone!
Sorry I haven't been on in a few weeks. I've been busy with work, my engagement to my fiance, and fixing some odds and ends on my truck. the front seal on my trans was leaking and my engine mounts were snapped so i fixed that and i did the Keating Machine rear freeze plug (which seems to be leaking) but I don't know if I am still going to make my own system or just buy a fass/airdog. Yes I can make my own but I feel like it'll be more beneficial to just get a performance aftermarket pump. More money but better filtration and the added benefit of air removal.
The only thing I'm not sure of is will my egts go up or down because I should be getting better atomization from constant pressure and cooler fuel.
Also I'm looking to inter-cool the truck now. I'm going to try and do the 2nd gen inter-cooler but I wasn't sure if my spool would stay the same or be better or slower. my boost should drop a bit just from having more volume. but right now its 3" straight from turbo to manifold. i think the second gen is 2.5" so how will that effect me performance wise?
Thanks for all your help and opinions everyone!
...Mark
