Awesome Design gear lube catcher
10-31-2011, 05:14 PM
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Awesome Design gear lube catcher
Got my brakes fixed... but created another problem.
About 3 weeks ago, I put new brakes in this truck. This is the second pair since I purchased it several months back. Something about the original rear shoes I bought just didn't work right, so I bought another brand, and switched them out again.
So...
I get my brakes fixed, go on a long ride today, and wallah...... look what I find... A gear oil leak.
I just put two new national 415009 seals in there when I did the brakes a few weeks ago, and now it's leaking again.
When I took it apart, the rubber seal dislocated itself from it's metal housing. Brought it back to the supply house, and the warranteed the new one. Real PITA, though.
Weird thing was..... My brakes weren't soiled, nor the drums, but the wheel and tire were.
Seems as though there is an "Oil Slinger" cone that is inside the drum, which stops the oil from contaminating the shoes, and forces the oil to leak between the drum and the hub, spreading itself all over the tire and rim.
Really great design...... Who'd a thunk it?
Hope I get more than a few weeks on this seal.
I probably didn't install the other one correctly, my guess.
T.
About 3 weeks ago, I put new brakes in this truck. This is the second pair since I purchased it several months back. Something about the original rear shoes I bought just didn't work right, so I bought another brand, and switched them out again.
So...
I get my brakes fixed, go on a long ride today, and wallah...... look what I find... A gear oil leak.
I just put two new national 415009 seals in there when I did the brakes a few weeks ago, and now it's leaking again.
When I took it apart, the rubber seal dislocated itself from it's metal housing. Brought it back to the supply house, and the warranteed the new one. Real PITA, though.
Weird thing was..... My brakes weren't soiled, nor the drums, but the wheel and tire were.
Seems as though there is an "Oil Slinger" cone that is inside the drum, which stops the oil from contaminating the shoes, and forces the oil to leak between the drum and the hub, spreading itself all over the tire and rim.
Really great design...... Who'd a thunk it?
Hope I get more than a few weeks on this seal.
I probably didn't install the other one correctly, my guess.
T.
10-31-2011, 08:53 PM
#2
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Not criticizing your work at all but, maybe there's a chance you caught the lip of it on the spindle upon install. I know it can be easy to do. Especially when you have the additional weight of a dually drum to balance as you carefully work the hub on.
I was nervous after I went through the wheel-ends on the '91.5 rear axle before I put it in my '90. Everything is bone dry though.
I was nervous after I went through the wheel-ends on the '91.5 rear axle before I put it in my '90. Everything is bone dry though.
10-31-2011, 09:51 PM
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Yep, those 1st gens all came with that shield that did a great job of keeping the gear oil off the brake components. It's too bad they stopped putting those on the newer trucks.
10-31-2011, 11:37 PM
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If you feel to and have the time, a pic of the oil slinger when you do the seal.
I think these are something that typically get removed because they fasten by sandwiching between the drum side of the press in lug studs? -- weird way to do it when the studs hold the rim/tire on -- so when a drum gets turned, or replaced, somehow they don't make it back in there. And they collect brake dust and grime like you wouldn't believe, so people leave them out.
But they sound like a super nice thing to have, considering what they do. Have to see if I can't get them back in there next time I have things apart. Somehow I doubt they are still made, have a part #.
Good thing brake pads are cheap, but doing them is... not fun, usually.
I think these are something that typically get removed because they fasten by sandwiching between the drum side of the press in lug studs? -- weird way to do it when the studs hold the rim/tire on -- so when a drum gets turned, or replaced, somehow they don't make it back in there. And they collect brake dust and grime like you wouldn't believe, so people leave them out.
But they sound like a super nice thing to have, considering what they do. Have to see if I can't get them back in there next time I have things apart. Somehow I doubt they are still made, have a part #.
Good thing brake pads are cheap, but doing them is... not fun, usually.
11-01-2011, 06:33 AM
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Not criticizing your work at all but, maybe there's a chance you caught the lip of it on the spindle upon install. I know it can be easy to do. Especially when you have the additional weight of a dually drum to balance as you carefully work the hub on.
I was nervous after I went through the wheel-ends on the '91.5 rear axle before I put it in my '90. Everything is bone dry though.
I was nervous after I went through the wheel-ends on the '91.5 rear axle before I put it in my '90. Everything is bone dry though.
I agree with you completely that the installation can be tricky, and the seal damaged during install.... But several weeks later, it fails ? Kind of weird. The metal ring that holds the rubber lip was not distorted or damaged at all upon removal of the drum. The rubber seal was completely separated from the ring, though.
I'm super careful with installation because of this, and I use my entire body to align the drum upon install. One thing I will tell you is that the new seal is super tight on the hub, and I often wonder if it's actually the correct seal for the truck. There are two numbers that come up, and either one actually fits. The difference is their width.
National 415009 (the one that matched what was in there
National 417158 (physically identical to the other, but not as "thick" of a housing...meaning that the housing is 1/8" thinner than the other, while the OD is the same, and the lip ID is almost the same.
Wondering if I'm installing the correct seals.
11-01-2011, 06:36 AM
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Sorry, Already done. Didn't take a pic, but I'm sure there's one here on the site somewhere.
Here's a pic of what happens when you do have one. The oil is forced outwards between the hub and drum....
Amazed that it would actually fit through there.
11-01-2011, 09:50 AM
#7
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Jim,
I agree with you completely that the installation can be tricky, and the seal damaged during install.... But several weeks later, it fails ? Kind of weird. The metal ring that holds the rubber lip was not distorted or damaged at all upon removal of the drum. The rubber seal was completely separated from the ring, though.
I'm super careful with installation because of this, and I use my entire body to align the drum upon install. One thing I will tell you is that the new seal is super tight on the hub, and I often wonder if it's actually the correct seal for the truck. There are two numbers that come up, and either one actually fits. The difference is their width.
National 415009 (the one that matched what was in there
National 417158 (physically identical to the other, but not as "thick" of a housing...meaning that the housing is 1/8" thinner than the other, while the OD is the same, and the lip ID is almost the same.
Wondering if I'm installing the correct seals.
I agree with you completely that the installation can be tricky, and the seal damaged during install.... But several weeks later, it fails ? Kind of weird. The metal ring that holds the rubber lip was not distorted or damaged at all upon removal of the drum. The rubber seal was completely separated from the ring, though.
I'm super careful with installation because of this, and I use my entire body to align the drum upon install. One thing I will tell you is that the new seal is super tight on the hub, and I often wonder if it's actually the correct seal for the truck. There are two numbers that come up, and either one actually fits. The difference is their width.
National 415009 (the one that matched what was in there
National 417158 (physically identical to the other, but not as "thick" of a housing...meaning that the housing is 1/8" thinner than the other, while the OD is the same, and the lip ID is almost the same.
Wondering if I'm installing the correct seals.
IIRC, the front seal and the rear seal are very close in size. with the width being the difference. Maybe you got a front seal. I'll try to find the numbers ...Mark
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11-01-2011, 12:15 PM
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I am new to the floating rear axle design having previously owned an F350 SRW with disk brakes set up and no floating design. When I first starting looking at the full floating design Dodge used in these years, I thought what a pain. Can't do a quick visual brake inspection with the hub taken easily off and on. What is the advantage of this design, strength or other??
11-01-2011, 12:31 PM
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A key advantage is that if you snap an axle shaft, the wheel will not separate from the truck. Wider bearing spread is another. This way, the weight is supported by the axle tubes, not the shaft itself.
11-01-2011, 12:33 PM
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The floating design is much stronger because it really takes the load off the bearings. It does away with the bearing being pressed on the axle,or bolted with a flange ala ford 1/2 ton.
11-01-2011, 07:36 PM
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Have you checked the axle vent lately? There known to plug up and the pressure in the axle has no where to go so it bleeds gear oil past the wheel seals. At one point I was in the same boat you are, wheels seals going every few weeks. The second time it went I checked the axle vent and it was plugged up nice and good. I didn't replace the wheel seal, just cleaned the vent tube on the axle, and the gear oil stopped leaking and it's been fine since about January. Look in the sticky there is a good thread about it in there.
11-01-2011, 07:43 PM
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No I didn't.... But it will be the first thing I'll be doing tomorrow.....
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...d.php?t=115036
Mucho's thankos....
T.
11-01-2011, 07:59 PM
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Aw, man. Totally forgot to bring that up. That's very often the cause of leaky axle seals. Did the same thing you did 92'1stGen, on a van though. Felt real stupid after all that work, could have fixed it in 2 minutes by clearing the breather. Another "Doh!!" moment.
11-03-2011, 06:20 PM
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OK,
I'm really frustrated,
and I'm about to shoot this truck !
I replaced the seal the other day... No leaks.... for a while anyway.
Before I went on a long trip, I pulled the vent out (by following the precautions in the sticky) and found it was 99% clogged. Cleaned it out real nice, tested the hose for pressure... Clear as a whistle. Separated the hose / breather, and scrubbed it out, sparkling new inside.
So.... I go on a long trip... about an hour @ 50mph.
Well, now it's worse. Not only is the passenger side leaking, but now ... with the vent cleaned out... the drivers side is now leaking.... which NEVER leaked before.
I must have the incorrect seals in there.... or I'm doing something else wrong. is it possible that the gear oil could affect the seals ? I'm using 85-140 conventional gear oil.
Does anyone know the correct seal number ????
I'm at a total loss right now.
Anyone have any other ideas ?
I'm really frustrated,
and I'm about to shoot this truck !I replaced the seal the other day... No leaks.... for a while anyway.
Before I went on a long trip, I pulled the vent out (by following the precautions in the sticky) and found it was 99% clogged. Cleaned it out real nice, tested the hose for pressure... Clear as a whistle. Separated the hose / breather, and scrubbed it out, sparkling new inside.
So.... I go on a long trip... about an hour @ 50mph.
Well, now it's worse. Not only is the passenger side leaking, but now ... with the vent cleaned out... the drivers side is now leaking.... which NEVER leaked before.
I must have the incorrect seals in there.... or I'm doing something else wrong. is it possible that the gear oil could affect the seals ? I'm using 85-140 conventional gear oil.
Does anyone know the correct seal number ????
I'm at a total loss right now.
Anyone have any other ideas ?